Black Christianity 101: Forgive Your K*llers and Arsonists

Black Christianity 101: Forgive Your K*llers and Arsonists
July 01 18:46 2015 Print This Article

As black churches across America are being burnt to the ground, black Christians have little more to offer than forgiveness for arsonists. In this 8 minute video, BreakingBrown founder Yvette Carnell makes a quick case for why that path doesn’t work and should be disregarded.

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34 comments
MorganaLeFay
MorganaLeFay

Look, people are entitled to their faith, but using it as the reason for failing to take justified action against unjustice and terrorism is, quite frankly, ridiculous. If someone wants to forgive killers and arsonists, then it is their right to do so, but don't place an expectation on everyone else that they should do the same. I see no reason for forgiving a terrorist who murdered nine innocent black people based on his inherently evil nature. Ditto for those terrorists burning black Churches in the aftermath. Using Christianity just isn't an adequate excuse. 

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

YVETTE, your site will no longer get any more money from me until you cease with these unnecessary AdChoices popups.  One cannot read a post or post anything without these nuisance popups in the way.

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

Thank you.  I am sick and tired of hearing about Jesus.  I am in Houston now and every one walks up to me and ask if I have been saved by Jesus.  I went to Hobby Loggy and purchased a blank t-shirt and paint pens and created my own t-shirt, saying, "NO.  I HAVE NOT BEEN SAVED BY JESUS CHRIST AND I DO NOT "f" WANT TO.  SO LEAVE ME THE "F" ALONE.

Watchful
Watchful

@queenofmeanest


LMAO, queen ... I'll bet u could sell alotta those t-shirts if they were for sale. : )

JeanWilliam1
JeanWilliam1

Open letter to black people:
Now that they have brought the flag down, let us abandon this poisonous religion. It is bondage. It is anti black, anti female and anti free will. The bondage is mental and physical. It is enslaving. They gave you a white God and son, which says to obey them. Hebrew 13:7 is fear based. The foundation of fear is religion. Fear is the product of ignorance. Enlightened people are not religionists. The church is made to keep people enslaved and ignorant. Slaves obey your master and turn the other cheek so that you can go to heaven. We need to respect and love ourselves

Rick Manigault
Rick Manigault

Those fake phony families who experienced no tragedy at all are now pushing for the total eradication of the second amendment. I felt uneasy about his whole flag thing and now I see whats coming. 


Forgiveness and the local Christian tradition I'm well aware of is  all about submission and gutlessness. 

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@Chris40 

P*ss on xtianity.  It is the enemy of the black people and the world.  Because of twowhite  xtian women, we have a war in Afghanistan. Look at the numbers of the maimed and killed because of these two swamp sows..

rod k
rod k

As a person who believes in evolution I must point out examples of my belief in the theory. I'll use the wheel as an example. The first person to create the wheel allowed mankind the ability to move forward in his ability in many areas. Transportation being one but also the use of the wheel concept in machinery allowed us the ability to manufacture which became the industrial revolution. I could go on and on about how the wheel has been used throughout time but that would be boring. In context of evolution that person who was chosen to come up with the wheel had to exist in order for mankind to advance. Certain people are chosen by if you want to say god or the force behind creation to be the first at something in order for evolution to continue. Throughout history at certain stages of man's development newer technologies and philosophies are introduced in order for mankind to continue to advance. At each of these juncture s the old had to be replaced and a segment of society wanted to have things continue in the old way but as time went on the newer way became the norm. Just as the horse was replaced by the car and the car will find a suitable replacement in the near future. I believe religion will be replaced by a more acceptable concept of spiritual development. The seeds of that change is already occurring as we speak. It's no coincidence that polls are showing that generation Y are not as enthusiastic about religion as previous generations. In one hundred years from now all major religions will not influence the populist as it had in previous era's. Just as Christianity and other religions started as cults and became powerful when they were accepted by the body politic . A newer and more personable approach to spirituality is developing the same way as previous religious thought was presented to the world. The difference is the technology we have at our disposal that allows the average person to discern truth for themselves. This is evolution in action. Getting to your point about King . I'm going to say something that you may not like but it has to be said. From my standpoint King didn't accomplish much other than what he was ALLOWED to accomplish. Getting the right for people to vote in a corrupt country as America is nothing to be proud of. I mean you're asking people to vote for a office of the presidency that continues the American theory of manifest destiny . Also even with his I have a dream speech he was hailed as some kind of visionary that we should be identified with some utopian dream of American brotherhood. He said this on steps and structures built by slaves. For me king wasn't as important as the people within my community or the people I come in contact daily. I never was a person who put trust in words nor am I a person who believes in turning the other cheek as king did. As I stated before evolution has casualties and the strong survives . It's just that simple. Just as universe's are replaced by other universes it is all part of a celestial plan of continued growth and expansion. The concept of infinity is a reality and we are just a mathematical equation in the larger picture of evolution. That's why I don't put to much faith in the flawed creation that is mankind. Our existence has a time period attached to it so why should I sweat the small stuff. I'll continue to do my part in whatever evolution requires of me regardless if I want to or not. I'm not going to put energy fighting against something I have no power to change. My life is so much better now that I've let go of superstition and religious dogma. Accepting ones self as a part of a reality that is evolution is liberating and the freest form of existence imaginable.

Watchful
Watchful

@rod k


Ur eloquent insight is greatly appreciated, rod k ... at least by me anyway.

rod k
rod k

People use the example of pass black leaders like Martin Luther King and others who happened to be Christians as somehow their faith helped them obtain their goals. People forget others like gandhi and other revolutionary leaders throughout history who weren't Christian that led their people. Is it faith or destiny that certain individuals are picked to lead mankind in evolution of civil rights for everyone. You could not have a Martin Luther King without having a gandhi before him. The religion is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned certain things have to happen in order for progress to emerge. Death and pain is associated to progress and there is no getting around that fact. Evolution is a process of the weak being replaced by the stronger in order for the species to survive. The same process is used in every facet of creation. Be it religion or education or even government evolution will rid itself of outdated concepts in order for mankind to advance. We are in the middle of a paradigm shift and old attitudes and mindsets are slowly being replaced with newer truths. Some people fear this and want to hold onto old ways of thinking and existing but you can't fight change. This Era that is evolving is both frightening and encouraging but it must happen regardless of how we feel about it. There will be blood death and anger in order to rid ourselves of past realities. No where in history of man has advancement been made without losses. It's what you do in the aftermath of a loss that advances the movement of mankind. We black people are a part of mankind and we should accept our part in the advancement of the species by showing some backbone during this paradigm shift. Evolution is demanding of us to stop being victims and stand up for ourselves. A perceived weak race will not survive and all one has to do is to look at the history of mankind to see the truth in what I'm saying. Let's not allow old beliefs such as religion be the demise of future generations of our race with its passivity towards our oppressors. We can and must do better.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@rod k  I assume your reply was in some sense a response to my mentioning Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. as an example of how to know that con-artists posing as pastors, etc., are lying when they tell grieving Black loved ones of victims of racist lynching that it is their religious "duty" to "forgive" the racist terrorist murderers.

While I agree with some of what you said, points of disagreement are (a) I never said being a Christian helped Dr. King "obtain" his goal. And, while Dr. King never in fact obtained his goal of Freedom, Justice, and Equality for African Americans in the first place, when one READS his writings it becomes clear the role his faith played in sustaining him during his difficult times. That is a fact. (b) there would indeed have been a Dr. King without there having been a Gandhi. Dr. King was not a product of a British occupied India as was Gandhi. Dr. King was a product of the apartheid Confederate U.S. south. While it is true Dr. King was impressed by Gandhi's mass movement of non-violence as a tactic given geopolitical realities, he was birthed into leadership by an already ongoing Civil Rights movement.

Moreover, if I may say so, it may be a mistake to equate "evolution," a process of nature, with political processes of humans. While it is true that in a world controlled by psychopaths, the "survival of the fittest" Darwinian concept is the status quo, it is also true that concepts of "advancement" are interpreted variously depending on ones own level of advancement. For example, many people reject the belief that a world mired in chaos and suffering, and headed for even more, as an "evolutionary" advancement. They view such a reality as "regression" rather than "progression."

It is also important to keep in mind that the idea that Blacks should help "advance mankind" ignores what Blacks have already -- historically and ongoing --  contributed to that project. Blacks gave the world its first civilizations, math, architecture, agriculture, science, medicine, technology, writing, on and own. Most serious historians, archeologists, etc., know this. And their students know it to. There's an abundance of literature on the subject.

Given these facts, what more do you want Blacks to give to the world?

The question is: when are Blacks going to receive reciprocity from the world? Not when are Blacks going to make a contribution.

Finally, I try to avoid discussions about other people's religion. What's important for me to know is that religion, per se, does not make people passive. I've referenced iconic examples of that fact. What makes people passive, or not, is rooted in many environmental factors other than religion. And they express their passivity in many ways other than uttering "forgiveness."

What is unacceptable about the people's behavior under discussion, is it is being used as propagandistic "modeling" behavior in an ongoing process of "slave-breaking." They are being conned into this socially unacceptable behavior by false holy men, who are telling them that it is their religious duty to make public fools of themselves in such a way. The media in their role of propaganda disseminators are having their own cake and eating it too. They get to not only hilariously mock the "forgivers," but spread the propaganda as well.

Since it is a social behavior -- amendable to social pressure, African Americans must vigorously apply social pressure  in demanding that it stops. Let it be known that such behavior is socially unacceptable to African Americans' sociocultural values, because it is culturally maladaptive and therefore politically dysfunctional.


Watchful
Watchful

@Johnw11 @rod k


I think u both made valid points in ur respective posts. For me, it's impossible to deny that xtianity, at least as it's been practiced by our ppl today, has, by and large, been an enormously negative influence on our ppl. Being that I stopped subscribing to any organized religious philosophy decades ago, I can definitely relate to rod's point of view. But again, u both make very valid points that I can and do greatly appreciate.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@Watchful Thanks for your feedback.

I wrote a full reply but it was not published. I got a pending notice. Don't know if it was from the site or from you know who.

Again, thanks. It was good hearing from you.

Watchful
Watchful

@Johnw11 


Greetings, Brutha John ... still having those pending messages, eh?  I've had a few myself, but not lately. U may have to take it up with Yvette to get to the bottom of the problem. 


BTW, always good to hear from u, too, my brutha. Hope to see more of ur always insightful posts.

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@Watchful @Johnw11 

I have gotten a few pending notices as well.  When it comes to adult conversations, moderators need to grow up.

Watchful
Watchful

@queenofmeanest 


Yeah, queen ... I just find it curious that there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the pending notices.  I didn't feel any of the pending notices I received were warranted bcuz there was nuthin' in my comments that I felt could be considered as possibly being in violation of the rules of the site. 

TinaSue
TinaSue

@Watchful @queenofmeanest 

I get the pending notices too..  I think that's the site. 

I also get "frozen out" and can't post at all.  I think that is law enforcement that monitors specific Black sites.

Watchful
Watchful

@queenofmeanest 


queen, if u haven't already, try downloading adblock pro ... that may help stop all those popups. 

TinaSue
TinaSue

@Watchful @TinaSue 

It's a fact!  Too bad they weren't watching for this latest gunman who murdered the soldiers; or that murderer of 9 Black church members.

They did the same thing to Dr. King.

Watchful
Watchful

@TinaSue 


Oh, believe me .... I know. They got their eyes on everything we do.

Watchful
Watchful

@queenofmeanest 


Really?  Wow, that's strange ... I've never had that happen since I've been using it.   Oh well ....

Johnw11
Johnw11

Very sharp observations by Ms. Carnell as usual.

The dysfunctional / maladaptive behavior of Blacks' quickness to "forgive" racists for murdering their loved ones must be addressed from a sociocultural-political perspective. Only then can the necessary social / cultural pressure be brought to bear so as to end this maladaptive political behavior (when sincerely felt).

First, it is sociocultural- political behavior, and not religious behavior. It is sociocultural  in nature because it is rooted historically in psychological "slave-breaking" (brainwashing). The form of Christianity introduced to enslaved Blacks from day-one was "love and forgive thy master, so says the Lord. If thy doesth this, thy shall go to heaven eat honey and wear golden slippers ." This is a well known fact. Therefore, it is not "religion" per se, because it is a manipulative distortion of religion.

It is also sociocultural in its nature because it is reinforced by a class of con-artists that teach such maladaptive behavior to credulous followers. Therefore, it is socially REINFORCED directly in terms of social interactions.

And, since such a "forgiveness" belief is not held by the vast majority of Blacks, those holding such belief are a sub-culture within the African American community, including Christians. Therein lies the cultural reality.

Second, it is political behavior because it is used for propagandistic purposes. Consistent with "slave-breaking" historically, the mission continues today. That's why as much media focus goes to the forgivers' "forgiving" as goes to the murderous racist psychopaths.

Now, in my observation, it is important that we keep in mind two facts of life. The first is, culturally speaking, as I learned while growing up around southern - bred highly religious Black people, often when Blacks say "may God have mercy on you," they really mean "may you burn in hell." This was also true historically, it is reasonable to imagine that most enslaved Blacks were lying when they said they forgave the slave-holders' cruelty. They said it for survival purposes. And the "forgiveness" was often demanded to be verbalized in the presence of all available Blacks on the plantation for its propagandistic value. Since no such survival issues pertain today, only the propagandistic value remains. And that is why it must stop -- must stop whether sincerely felt or not.

To achieve the desired outcome of stopping it, sociocultural pressure must be applied against the behavior. It must be criticized by all sane Blacks in all spheres of Black communication. The truth must be told; the behavior is not only "embarrassing," but it is maladaptive. It encourages Blacks to respond to existential threats in a dysfunctional manner. It fails to consider that these victimizers are racist psychopaths and therefore incapable of appreciating "forgiving" behavior internally or externally. While the "forgiving" victims view themselves as "highly moral," the psychopath views their behavior as being the "weakness" of "suckers,'" and, in the psychopaths' mind, proof that the "forgivers" are "inferior."

The con-artists posing as "messengers" of God, who take advantage of grieving victims and (for rewards) talk them into making these idiotic statements for media consumption must also be called out. They must be told when they encourage victims to "forgive" because it is a religious requirement that, as the old folks used to say -- "it's a lie, and the truth ain't in it." 

Otherwise, how does one explain Nat Turner, Martin Luther King, Jeremiah Wright, James Cone, et al. being Christians? 


HANNIBAL the VICTOR
HANNIBAL the VICTOR

Let them burn! The weak blacks are just standing in our way. It is a waste of time trying to convince these COONS to fight. Blacks of LIKE MIND should network and get together to attain power. Look at the power brokers in the hispanic community. There not sitting back and waiting for the lowest common denominator in their community to get on board with latino empowerment. They buy and rent politicians like Barack Obama and they use their economy to punish their enemies like Donald Trump. Lead , follow or get the hell out of the way!!

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@HANNIBAL the VICTOR 

What would happen to Jesus if blacks stopped worshiping him?  I remember a white classmate from high school asking the teacher what happened to Zeus, Thor and Odin.  He said they died.  She asked why.  He said that people stopped believing in them.


Interesting concept.

JeanWilliam1
JeanWilliam1

@HANNIBAL the VICTOR Black people are like that because they have not been taught their history. We have no love nor respect for ourselves or each other. That's why we have 1.3 trillion spending power and yet we have no power , all of the other groups will not let you say anything about them. You see how they dropped Donald Trump for saying what he said about the Hispanics. We let them call the president and 1st lady outrageous names because we do it ourselves so we have no respect for them so they don't have any. You must love and respect yourself !