Breaking Brown

December 5, 2014

Why a Dialogue on Race Is Impossible

Why a Dialogue on Race Is Impossible

by Yvette Carnell

With the number of slayings of black men beginning to unnerve even the most ferocious right wingers, such as Glenn Beck, a few pundits are back to calling for a dialogue or conversation on race and police brutality. But, as a Facebook friend observed here, those sorts of conversations are mostly useless in this country:

One can’t have a dialogue with another person who is only interested in having what R.D. Laing labeled a “duologue.” Duologues occur when two parties are talking past each other or one of the parties refuses to acknowledge what the other person is saying. The exchange between Eric Garner and the police officers who killed him was a duologue. The cops were more focused on subduing and subjugating a person who was not physically resisting them than in carrying out appropriate police procedures. The police were more focused on demonstrating to Mr. Garner they were in charge than trying to ascertain if he was breaking the law. At no point did one of the officers claim to have seen Mr. Garner selling single cigarettes nor did they produce a witness who claimed to have seen him peddling cigarettes. They were not interested in establishing any lawful basis for approaching him. They simply wanted him to comply with their demands. The fact Mr. Garner said he was doing nothing wrong was meaningless to the cops because they refused to accept his humanity. The cops even refused to hear him when he said, “I can’t breathe.” There is no possibility of having a dialogue with people who refuse to hear you.

 

 

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45 thoughts on “Why a Dialogue on Race Is Impossible

  1. PernellParham says:

    Great point. This was about control. They were set on what they were doing and his rights be damned!

  2. darkesspreso says:

    this is one of the Silliest article

    How in the hell can u dialogue with a Savages who has his arms wrap around your Neck …
    You scream ” I CANT BREATH ”
    and the kracker SQUEEZE Tighter and say Stop Resisting …

    u suppose that we should allow the Kracker to choke us and Die politely ?????

    Memo to u respectable Negro i mean SCARY negro
    the reason a Black man death doesn’t move u, is becaue u have no Soul 

    So the era we r living in is the era where the Black man is still the white man slave
    to be mistreated, used and abused

  3. Roderick king says:

    Sometimes I feel that most black people and other minorities are functional denyers. Dialogue with some whites in power is about as effective as pissing in the wind. America doesn’t do dialogue it takes what it wants and dare you to complain. Ask a native American about dialogue with some whites in power ask the Japanese who were put in camps during ww2 about dialogue. Ask the slaves who was promised 40 acres and a mule about dialogue the list goes on and on. The epidemic of police shootings is not new it has always been happening at alarming rates. The only difference is that we have sources like the internet and iPhones to record the incidents of police shootings. But you have to remember this is America and we operate in denial and lies. We know our government lies as well as our law enforcement officials. This is just facts. We are just as guilty of allowing things to be as they are by playing the game of pacifism in regards to civil rights. We have to admit that being a compliant compromiser only plays into the hands of those who want subservient minorities to not uprise in a way that threatens the status quo. That is the God’s honest truth. So continue to watch black reality shows praise Oprah and other black celebrities continue to raise your children to be athletes to entertain the people in power and watch things continue to spiral out of control. IT’S THE AMERICAN WAY.

  4. Johnw11 says:

    R.D. Laing is absolutely correct. You can’t have a “dialogue” with someone who is not interested in your humanity. In fact, the question of whether or not Blacks are “human” is at the root of the matter, and has been from Black chattel enslavement to the present day.
    Moreover, since “racism” is structural, what good is talking that is designed not to change the systemic harm racism is doing to Blacks in every aspect of life, but is only intended to convince Blacks to accept the racist conditions quietly.
    Racism benefits its practitioners with “white” privileges both materially and psychically. Racists are not about to give up their privileges, these include the privilege to murder Blacks with impunity on the individual level, and wholesale on the systemic / structural level. All the while reinforcing their warped sense of racial superiority over their victims.
    Since racism is a mental illness, it is difficult to talk realistically with crazy folks in the first place. But a dialogue with racist-based mental illness is more than difficult– it’s impossible. A perfect example of this observation can be seen on this site. Racist trolls present themselves, claiming not to be racists while at the same time spewing the most ridiculous racist nonsense imaginable. When logic and facts are presented to prove their beliefs inaccurate, rather than giving any consideration to the facts, they become more entrenched in their beliefs.
    This behavior, as observed in trolls on this site and elsewhere, is consistent with scientific findings that extremely biased people do not change their views by simply being provided with factual information contradicting their biases, instead they become more harden in their biases. They seek “confirmation bias” not facts.
    No useful “dialogue” on race or anything else can occur without facts.
    The thing to talk about now is not a dialogue on race, but a demand for justice. That within itself will be difficult for both racist whites and idol worshipping Blacks. It will be difficult for racist whites because they don’t want justice for Blacks, viewing it as an encroachment on their white privileges. And it will be hard for many Blacks because they don’t want to “bother” Black faces in “high places” — whose responsibility it is in the first place to arrest these criminals for their crimes against Blacks. Instead, the “Black faces” in “high places” seek to buy time, meander, and make false promises about “investigations,” some of which are over three years old and counting, while
    arresting only obviously disturbed Blacks (driven insane, or nearly insane by the injustices) for exhorting emotional nonsense, and not those who murder Blacks.
    In this way, the “Black faces” are siding with the racists, while manipulating the Black “idol worshippers” with charm and false claims of racial “relatedness.”
    It’s a sick situation.

  5. PernellParham says:

    Johnw11 That was very well put. The truth is just as you stated…any rights acknowledged for us is taken as a threat to their security when in fact, what helps us helps them, but because they perceive themselves superior, they don’t see it that way. A racist mind is a closed mind. No amount of logic will change them.

  6. Johnw11 says:

    PernellParham Thanks Mr. Pernell. You’ve got it!

  7. Watchful says:

    Johnw11

    “Since racism is a mental illness, it is difficult to talk realistically with crazy folks in the first place. But a dialogue with racist-based mental illness is more than difficult– it’s impossible.”

    U got that right, my good brutha.

  8. Johnw11 says:

    Watchful Johnw11  For example, a troll just responded to a comment of mine, wherein the sick troll insisted that gunpowder residue was found on Mike’s hand.
    Now I’d already stated that NO gunpowder was found just as the autopsy report said none was found. But in his own sick head, he insists in effect that regardless of what the report said, gunpowder was found because he wants it to have been found.
    Now that psychopath expects me to respond to him.
    So, those talking about a dialogue on race are simply trying to buy time. Time that Blacks don’t have to waste.
    In fact, we don’t have time to waste on trolls. I wish more of us would recognize that fact and stop responding to them.
    It won’t be long before they find their way into this discussion. But now matter what they say, we should just ignore them, and carry on with our discussion as if they never posted. After a while, with no reinforcement, they’ll go away and look for another site hoping to find Blacks dumb enough to waste time arguing with them about whether or not Blacks have the right to exist.
    As I’m sure you already know — OUR RIGHT TO EXIST IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. Watchful says:

    Johnw11 

    Again, u’re preachin’ to the choir, my brutha. 😉

    Let’s just hope that other conscious bruthas and sistahs who participate in these discussions will join us in ignoring them.

  10. Roderick king says:

    I think most people are missing the point. Racism is a learned behavior born out of the necessity to be accepted by the power elite. We are conditioned to hate in America and that crosses color lines economic background religious affiliation sexual orientation and so on and so forth. All minorities and immigrants through out American history were and still are pitted against each other for the elusive and fictional American dream.This culture doesn’t allow you to not be accepted as a human being but creates scenarios that make you embrace an identity that is acceptable to those in power. In western society we give into the powers that be in order to be recognized as functional parts of a flawed society. We all are part of a dysfunctional system of existing. The problem is that this dysfunction has been accepted as the norm. The reason why things are at a boiling point is that the system can’t hide its dysfunction anymore because we live in a information age. The lies and deceit that has been a part of those in power in America is being scrutinized by the world through technology. Racism and brutality by Americans is the main topic of people around the world. Our government starting wars for profit our law enforcement militarism and the enforcement of flawed policing by the police is on everyone mind around the world. The discrimination of Muslims and Hispanics by blacks and whites in America is alarming but expected because of the legacy of wanting to be recognized and accepted as a part of the American dysfunction. We blacks have to do some real soul searching and recognize that we are just as guilty of creating our conditions as those who would oppress us. We have to break the cycle of allowing ourselves to be looked at as victims of racism and finally come to terms with have been on a terrible journey of identity. We have allowed others to define what it means to be black in western society. IT’S not any wonder we live with violence in and out of our communities be we have yet to establish black morality . Black morality is a contrast to American morality. American morality is take from those less fortunate and give to those who don’t deserve it. American morality is lie and pretend you’re not oppressors while trying to conquer the world. American morality is to have your religious figures preach of prosperity and righteousness while at the same time ignoring the suffering inflicted by our corrupt government. American morality is to have political parties fein that they represent the common man but do the bidding for the powerful. Black morality is completely opposite of what i outlined. We used to be strong and powerful with our determination to illustrate our morality to the world. We knew what it meant to sacrifice those that we loved and admired for the larger cause of defining morality for our oppressors. Police have been killing our own and have been getting away with it since the creation of organised policing. What is different now is we have the tools to illuminate the actions of the police that we didn’t have in the past. We can return to a sense of a community that lives with its morality in tact if we don’t lose sight of our individual duties of our part in bringing about the changes in black culture. We can’t do that with a lifestyle that was dictated in dysfunction and created by those in power. We have to fight the urge to fit in and become an independent people again. Not become racist but stand on black morality principles and not be deterred no matter what America puts before us.

  11. Watchful says:

    It’s obvious to me that some here still don’t get it. It ain’t about a ‘dysfunctional system’ or any sense of  ‘morality’ – IT’S ABOUT WHITE SUPREMACY. PERIOD!!!!!

    As Mr.Neely Fuller Jr has been saying for decades now :  “If you don’t understand racism/white supremacy – what it is, and how it works – everything else that you THINK you understand will only confuse you.”

    http://www.peuplesawa.com/fr/bnlogik.php?bnk=24&bnrub=1&bnid=379&seite=2

  12. Roderick king says:

    It’s not that simple to say it’s just white supremacy that’s the cause of the state of black people in America. It’s the denial of the obvious victimization that we have accepted. It’s so 60s to use the victim card. You can’t fight racism by being racist yourself. You fight racism by demanding that the law is enforced equally and without favoritism. But we blacks also must be real in ensuring that we aren’t relying on racism as a crutch to not hold people in our communities accountable for their misdeeds. Otherwise we look hypocritical and feed into the stereotype of the angry out of control black person. I never gave up my militant side to my personality but I have learned to be angry without a answer to why I’m angry doesn’t help anyone. I refuse to play the victim in America. I raised my daughter and grandchildren to not accept victimization. I instilled in them the principle of dogmatic resilience . To not be afraid to advocate for themselves and to not give up when they know their right. IT’S their responsibility to live a victimless life. It boils down to their choices.

  13. Watchful says:

    Roderick king

    I see u still don’t get it.

    So I guess we HAVEN’T been ‘demanding that the law is enforced equally’ up to this point, right?

     Relying on racism as a crutch???  Talk about being totally CLUELESS. SMGDH

     U prove Mr.Fuller right with each comment u make. 

    Oh well, I won’t bother responding to u any further cuz u’re a lost cause … carry on.

  14. PernellParham says:

    Johnw11 Watchful You are very welcome. It is a pleasure to read o.not only interesting posts, but those that are correct.

  15. Johnw11 says:

    Watchful Roderick king  I wouldn’t give up Roderick so quickly. He has made comments in the past that proves he gets it.
    I think he, and I hope he doesn’t mind my saying this, is a little bit unclear for whatever reason when it comes to understanding racism. The model he is using to ground his analysis might very well be the cause of the problem.
    Going back to his earlier comment wherein he stated that racism is “learned” behavior (which is both true and false), he stated that various groups of people are taught to hate each other in this society by ruling elites for the purpose of divide and conquer, which results in everyone being ripped-off. (I think that was the gist of his argument).
    Well, to a significant degree that is accurate. In fact, I have made that argument myself.
    That being said, another reality that must be considered is what is the attitude of these various groups about Blacks before they come to this country? Why is it so easy for them to “learn” to hate Blacks? There are plausible explanations.
    We know for example that in indigenous “Muslim” culture, Blacks are on the bottom and are in fact treated worse than dirt. We know that Arabs (dominators of Muslim culture, although most Muslims are not Arabic) were the first whites to enslave Blacks. And still practice slavery against Blacks. In fact, the land they occupy in North Africa was conquered from Blacks via genocidal methods beginning centuries ago and continues to the present day. Furthermore, we know that in Mexico (despite Blacks’ foundational relationship to the development of early Olmec civilization in that region of the world), Blacks are racially discriminated against and held at the bottom of society. All symbols of negativity are Black.
    Now one could argue that such behavior was “learned” from the conquering white Spanish Conquistadors, but that is a whole ‘nother research question.
    I think what Roderick is saying on the one hand is that white supremacy is not the cause of Black people’s problems (a position I definitely DISAGREE with), while on the other hand saying that Blacks must “fight racism by demanding that the law is enforced equally and without favoritism” — a position I definitely AGREE with.
    When he argues, however, that Blacks are using a “victims” crutch from the “1960s,” I’m not clear how he can reconcile that assertion with the real world. In fact, it isn’t congruent with his own position that Blacks must “fight” racism to ensure equality and non-“favoritism.” If Blacks are not victims, then that means that things are already free and equal. Hence, there’s no need to “fight.”
    And why knock the 1960s, the historical period when Blacks fought the most ( because they KNEW they were victims), and got the most results in modern times? Results that have long been eroding, because, told that they were not victims by “Black Conservative ” con-artists working for the white right-wingers (the very ones mostly doing the eroding) many Blacks stopped fighting and instead watched the “Cosby Show.”
    In fact –and I don’t blame Roderick for this — the whole con-game idea of Blacks not being victims was hatched by the victimizers to neutralize Blacks quest for justice. Non-victims don’t seek redress, there’s no need for them to. Afterall, not having been “victimized,” they have no grievances.
    I hope Roderick will remain part of this discussion, he has a lot to say, much of which makes sense.

  16. Johnw11 says:

    Roderick king  I appreciate your teaching your children and grandchildren not to “accept victimization.” That is exactly what you should do!
    But that is not the same as telling people that they are not victims, when in fact they are.
    Based on my research, there has been a deliberate propaganda game being played on Blacks by the right-wingers using Black stooges (called “Black Conservatives”) for the past 40 or so years. This propaganda seeks to brainwash people into believing that the natural response of victims, upon accepting the fact that they have been victimized is to do nothing. That propaganda is counter-intuitive and totally illogical.
    When a person has been victimized, they have two choices (1) do nothing, or(2) seek redress. If they do nothing, that choice is unnatural. The natural choice is to seek redress. In some cases they may not know what to do.
    Regardless of their response choice (and that depends on a number of things), they are much more likely to do something if they know they have been victimized than they are if they do not know.
    For example, under which of the following circumstances is a shopper more likely to request/demand correct change after making a purchase and was not given the correct change:
    1. The shopper counts the change and learns that it is incorrect (recognizes his / her victimization).
    2. The shopper does not count the change and does not know that the incorrect amount has been given(does not know that he /she has been victimized).
    Most people know the correct answer to such a simple question.
    But the right-wing con artists are not saying that. They are claiming that the correct change was given (society is “colorblind”) and that when Blacks ask for / demand the correct change, they are “playing” the victim. That they don’t have “personal responsibility” even though when counting their change (which is their “personal responsibility”) Blacks see full-well that it is short.
    That’s why we must be careful when using concepts like victimization. Being a victim does not mean that a person accepts victimization and does nothing about it. The opposite is true. Not knowing that one has been victimized is far more likely to result in a none self-defense response than knowing that one is / has been victimized. That is why the racists shout so loudly, and pay their Black stooges so handsomely to speciously exhort, that Blacks are not victims of racism / white supremacy. When, in fact, we are.
    Sometimes people get “victimization” confused with “learned helplessness.” Learned helplessness is a psychological state wherein those victimized are conditioned to believe that there is nothing they can do about their victimization. Even in such a case, because it is a “conditioned” state rather than a natural (unconditioned) state, all that is required for its extinction as a conditioned state is the instillation of hope.
    That’s what the southern racists found out first hand in the 1950s and 60s when the Civil Rights Movement hit them head on. Southern Blacks who had taken their crap for decades, if not centuries, suddenly looked them in the eyes and said “go to hell! We ain’t taking it no more!”
    It must be the “out side agitators,” the racist cried out, “that’s where they’re getting their HOPE from!”
    Stay strong, and keep doing what’s right, but let’s not get it twisted.

  17. Watchful says:

    Johnw11 

    “When he argues, however, that Blacks are using a “victims” crutch from the “1960s,” I’m not clear how he can reconcile that assertion with the real world. In fact, it isn’t congruent with his own position that Blacks must “fight” racism to ensure equality and non-“favoritism.””

    Therein lies the problem I had with his comment. Perhaps, I was a bit harsh in referring to him as ‘totally clueless’. Maybe ‘terribly confused’ would have been a better choice of words. 🙂

  18. Johnw11 says:

    Watchful Johnw11  I agree. However, just to make it clear that you were quoting me above, although I know you used quotation marks, one troll claimed that I’ve been “stealing” other people’s comments when they have quoted me (LOL).
    The point I was making in the quote you used is that a lot of people are not as advanced as you and others are and therefore say things in the course of their argument that don’t support the premise of their argument. That’s called a “paradox.” (I know you already know.)
    But Roderick is a good brother.  I respect him and his comments are almost always on point.
    As I stated to Roderick in my direct response to him, the concept of “victimization” has been confused, deliberately so, over the past several decades.
    So when Blacks say correctly that they are “victims,” the right-wing con artists have trained people to believe that that means to not accept “personal responsibility.” In other words, use a “crutch” by falsely blaming racism.
    I have to clear up such confusion daily.
    If Roderick, who I know is intelligent, should like to discuss the matter further, or disagrees, I’d be happy to continue dialoguing with him, and I know you would too.
    He is not a troll. Therefore, it would be in violation of site rules.
    That’s what brothers should do, discuss matters intellectually and work them out.
    Just as I learn from you and others on this site, I could learn a lot from Roderick.

  19. Johnw11 says:

    Watchful Johnw11  I meant to say it would “NOT” be in violation of site rules.

  20. Watchful says:

    Johnw11

    Careful, I’m beginning to think u may have an unhealthy obsession with the trolls. Just kiddin’. 🙂

    As to Roderick, hopefully he took some time to check out those clips and the link I provided, specifically to help him clear up any confusion that may exist in his mind on the topic of racism/white supremacy. That said, I’m not gonna spend any more time engaging in dialog with him on this topic. I think I pretty much know where he stands.

  21. Watchful says:

    Johnw11 

    BTW, what r u doin’ up so late? R u an insomniac or naturally nocturnal like me? 

    Or r u on PST(Pacific Standard Time). 🙂

  22. Roderick king says:

    Being raised in a household that streesed personal responsibility and having parents who accomplished their goals in spite of the obvious racism they faced in the south of the 50s and 60s I learned from my parents to not let anyone hold me back. Having a God father like Harold Boulware as a mentor and role model allowed me to see activism and sacrifice firsthand. We sometimes forget that in our neighborhoods that people survive and live productive lives in spite of the racism they encounter. I stand by my statement that racism is a learned behavior all you have to do is watch children of different races playing at a playground and you’ll see racism is nowhere to be found in their interactions. Parents teach racism for whatever reasons. I also stand by my statement that America creates scenarios for racism to be cultivated. We live with violence and hate because that’s what this country was founded on. Under these conditions it’s damn near impossible to have a population that doesn’t want to do harm to the underclass. If you don’t see the obvious than its on you.

  23. Johnw11 says:

    Roderick king  First, I see that right-wing “Obamacon” troll-guy with that 1950s Eastern European hairstyle ( posing as “carol Parks”) likes your comment.
    I like it too, but for different reasons than the troll-guy. The troll-guy likes it because you stressed the idea of “personal responsibility,” as somehow trumping racism — which is the “right-wing” con-gamer’s specious propagandistic theme. I like it because it allows me to better understand the mind-set you are operating in.
    Please do not consider my response to be a debate, since my professional (not self-taught) training and credentialing is in the field of behavioral analysis, such a debate, if it were my intent, would not be fair to you. Nor does that fact in any way mean that I cannot learn from you.
    I would, however, like to review some of the major points you raised and offer my perspective. And, with your permission, point out inconsistencies in your comment.
    1. Being raised in a household that stressed “personality responsibility.”
    —I have worked with African American populations (mostly poor) for the last 15+ years, and I do not know of anyone who has not been taught personal responsibility. I do know of many people whose dreams were crushed, or reduced to mere day-to-day survival, by white supremacy (systemic racism).
    That would include the thousands of Blacks who have received college degrees only to see white HS grads and “dropouts” hired over them at a ratios of over 3 to 1. And the millions with no books in their schools, the millions forced to live under ‘economic sanctions,’ etc.
    In the interest of brevity, I’ll stop there in this reply. Suffice it to say that millions of Blacks achieved their career goals during the era you cited, it was not a ‘victory’ over racism, but the acquiescence of racism as pacification during that era when more temporal opportunities were made available by the very Civil Rights Movement you claim to have outgrown (please read a book from that era: “The Choice: the issue of Black survival in America, by Sam Yette.”)
    2. Racism is ‘learned’ behavior because little children of different races play to together.
    — In this regard, I subscribe to the  position of contemporary social scientists. “Personality / behavior results from a ‘complex interaction’ of both genetic (biological) and environmental (learning) influences.” 
    Given this, since all behavior is “learned,” contingent to biological dictates, racism is no different. Such an understanding then compels one to move beyond a “learning” model to the “adaptive” nature of behavior. In other words, learned behavior is subordinate to the drives of survival. For example, one can “learn” that stealing is wrong, but with no other options to eat, “adapts” to stealing.
    Or, one can learn that one’s “genetic pool” is not capable of sustaining itself if it cannot produce color in a world where the majority of people have color, and therefore “adapts” a “Social Construct”  (system) of racism/white supremacy.
    In such a system, social interaction (playing together) is meaningless as long as POWER remains in the hands of the racists. In fact, “proximity” studies (done by whites) have shown that racist whites have a tendency to prefer a more closer proximity to Blacks during social interactions than those expressing greater “racist” views of Blacks on questionnaires.
    Moreover, Blacks married to /dating whites have complained in the literature of their white mates wanting to call them “niggers” and “Black b-tch” during sex, or for the Blacks to play “slave” as an arousal foreplay.
    Those are facts!
    3. “Parents teach children racism for whatever reason.”
    — Parents teach racism to maintain “white supremacy.” It just that simple.
    4. Finally, you said “The country was founded on violence, therefore it’s no wonder they will harm the “underclass.”
    Exactly, so where’s the disagreement?
    It is first necessary to understand the world we live in, if we ever hope to change it. The first step is to understand that racism is more than an attitude, it is a system. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have an “underclass” in the first place. And the fact that we do have an underclass has nothing to do with “personal responsibility.”
    In regards to number 4, you contradict yourself.

  24. Roderick king says:

    You sound like a conspiracy theorists right wing mumbo jumbo not withstanding. As an person who spent 33 years of his life working in social services starting as a counselor working with emotional disabled youth to being director of a non profit that advocated jobs for the disabled it’s been my observation that you can’t make any progress in life without you taking responsibility for your actions. At some point after butting heads with failure in any endeavor you have to ask yourself what am I doing wrong. In the case of racism the easy way to try and explain its effects is to paint a broad picture and not look at the nuances that accompanies it’s presence in society. If you are brought up in a household where your parents use the term cracker or nigger or spick beaner or any derogatory description of another race it contributes to the racist society we find ourselves living in. Those children grow up to be policemen politicians teachers store owners or maybe in a position of power. I believe you can’t legislate morality as evident with all the civil rights legislation that was passed in the last 50 years and we still are living with the unjustified murders of our youth. Those grand juries that justified the police killing are an example of our desire for morality. Maybe In a few generations in the future America might come to it’s senses on racism. But it will have to change its standing in the world. Violence and oppression breeds a racist mind. The American forefathers had to have contempt and manufactured hatred towards Indians to justify taking their lives and land. Everything that has happened in America since then has always had a tint of racism in it. Racism is like a manufactured cancer in America and there has yet to be a cure. My fear for the future is that racism will become larger because of the need for resources. It may not be black and white people having issues it maybe be American racism against middle eastern culture. The seeds for that to happen is already planted.

  25. RitchieMayes says:

    Why are so many of the comments off point? In order to have a dialogue, sometimes it is necessary to articulate, the fear of change. At its core, change is addressing a culture of fear embraced by many that exist in constructed silos of isolation. We can continue to exist in the ostrich mentality of hiding with our heads in the sand, or confront issues in an atmosphere of collaboration. Attempting to describe ideologies wrapped-up in conspiracy theories does nothing to resolve societal challenges. The challenge is how do we move forward? How do we suppress the “isms” that frame the thinking of many? Dialogue is meant to get at the heart of divisions, to challenge assumptions, to enlighten worldviews. Not used as a platform for venting. If we are to move forward, then we must become serious about the challenges before us.

  26. BigWood1 says:

    Black brothers and sisters, you must understand “These People” are your mortal enemy. Why do you insist on going to a brick building every Sunday and praying to your enemy as your GOD?? Wake up Black people, your enemy still views you as damn fools for worshipping them even though they kick your @ss on a daily basis

  27. Watchful says:

    Johnw11 

    Well said, but like I told u, Roderick STILL doesn’t get it and most likely never will. His mind is already closed and made up on the issue of the global system of racism/white supremacy and it’s impact on the plight of blk ppl as evidenced by his response to ur comment, calling u a ‘conspiracy theorist’. SMGDH

    Now maybe u can see just y I chose not to engage in any further dialog with him … it’s a complete waste of time.

  28. soul60 says:

    One thing is this Black people need to wake up mentally once and for all and move way beyond the 60’s civil rights movement and this outdated paradigm of being depending on the white man or white people in general to really care or want to solve the problems of black people in this country.
    Many years ago when a brother by the name of Steve Cokely-RIP started to warn and lecture small groups of black’s in certain urban areas about the new world order A vast % of other black’s were not listening,did not care or would say ” that n word is crazy “. If not some even said
    ” he is working for the cia spreading misinformation
    These shooting and beatings by these different  police are part of that agenda simple as that.Look at  the numbers real careful.
    Go to certain cities and  to  urban black neighborhood and then count how many RIP monument you might see on one street or  how many  black bodies have been shot down on these streets either by police or a black  criminal.
    Do the math and see how many black men and black women are locked up in some type of white owned  and operated   prison plantation.
    This is a form of 21st century genocide,eugenics and population control simple as that

  29. Johnw11 says:

    Roderick king  At this point, I’m inclined to close your case and agree with Watchful. You just don’t get it.
    What I find particularly disturbing is your claim that you have been entrusted with the care of “emotional disturbed” Black youth, obviously without the training /skills or sensitivity for such an important responsibility.
    Your statement about “butting heads with failure” is NOT a professional position, it is PARAPROFESSIONAL and layman’s perspective at best.
    What would you expect an “emotionally disturbed” person to do, youth or adult, without FIRST having their “emotional” disturbances addressed? You said nothing about your own role in the process, what your own skill level was to be working with such a population in the first place. Instead, you scold those you were charged with helping for not responding to whatever “counseling” you provided. It is your “personal” and “professional responsibility” to ensure that you are qualified to help persons presenting to you for help, regardless of race, color, national origin, sexual orientation, or handicapping conditions.
    It is also YOUR responsibility to provide “counseling” or whatever intervention within the “cultural” context the person seeking your help exists within.
    In that regard, I’m no longer inclined to be person centered (nondirective) with you. I am going to be very “directive.”
    You get over there RIGHT NOW to the American Psychological Association’s website and learn what unemployment and poverty do to people’s psycho-social-physical health.
    I mean do it right now!
    Then you read “Motivational Interviewing” (MI) and  “Motivational Enhancement Therapy” (MET) by Miller and Rollick (1991) and learn how to motivate people by (1) rolling with resistance, (2) avoiding augmentation, (3) showing empathy, (4) SUPPORTING SELF_EFFICACY, and (5) pointing out discrepancies.  Also familiarize yourself with “contingency contracting,” (CC) motivational methods, even the most “disturbed” people have been trained to change their behavior when they know that doing so will result in a reward for their efforts (that’s a therapeutic method of the behavioral model). In fact, both are, MI and MET are nondirective while CC is directive.
    Then, familiarize yourself with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) techniques.
    ON the question of racism, there is nothing more to be said about that. You keep approaching it as being expressed by “racist terms” when it has been stressed to you with paradigmatic and scientific proof that racism is a “system” that is practiced regardless of attitudes.
    Finally, the other thing I find disturbing is your claim that Racism will end in the future and then you say that it will not, citing the same like- models of analysis that you reject to express your contradictory views.
    That to me indicates an acute confusional state, representative of someone trying to force themselves to consciously believe what they know in their subconscious is not actually true.
    Be careful. And take care.

  30. Johnw11 says:

    Roderick king  One more thing. And this probably the most important of all.
    Please read: “RESILIENCE IN AFRICAN CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS: A VISION FOR OPTIMAL DEVELOPMENT.”
    It is a 123 page report published by the American Psychological Association (2008).
    It guides those working with African American youth to focus on their resilience (strengths) and not be obsessed with their weaknesses.
    If your focus was specific to the latter, no wonder they didn’t listen to you.

  31. Johnw11 says:

    Watchful Johnw11  Well, I saw it all along. I just wanted to learn more about that mindset.
    I don’t believe in cutting people off without first learning what their position is. I will even respond to a troll once or twice, but no more than that.
    To test where people are, I believe in presenting models of thought within which to process their response. If they respond specific to the model, or with a model of their choosing that is in fact a model, whether they agree or disagree, and they do have the right to disagree, as long as it is within the context of a “model” of thought that is related to the discussion topic and connected to the real world. As you and many others already know, the world is explained in terms of theoretical models derived from either time-tested or empirical observations of how the world is /was ideologically, socioeconomically, politically, and historically, etc. = racially ultimately.
    Given that fact, when people start rambling off, discussing the world in terms of what they “want” it to be as if it’s really that way just because they want or wish it to be that way absent any real world model–then that’s a problem!
    I believe Roderick is torn between two worlds, the world of “wish,” and the world of “real.” It is highly possible that his apparent ambivalence is due to some intimate social choices he has made.
    If so, then he is a in battle with himself that he cannot win, even though the battle is within himself and involving only himself.
    In retrospect, maybe I was a bit too directive with him in my last reply. But the idea of his denigrating “emotionally disturbed Black youth” for what he calls a lack of motivation to achieve whatever goals he felt they should be pursuing (makes me wonder if the goals were inappropriately his rather that appropriately theirs in the first place), while at the same time acknowledging that they were emotionally disturbed, was a bit too much. Emotionally disturbed people are supposed to pursue goals other than firstly addressing their emotional issues? I see.
    It leaves me wondering if they had actually been diagnosed as such by a qualified professional (which he is obviously not), or was it his designation resulting from biases in his own head. (With that troll-guy urging him on in his misplaced attacks on Black youths.) 
    I wish him well.
    And thank you for your qualified feedback. Like you, I’m done with him.

  32. Watchful says:

    Johnw11 

    See, told ya. 

    Wish I coulda liked ur comments 50 times.

  33. Johnw11 says:

    RitchieMayes  What “conspiracy theories” are you referring to? Not That I have the time to go over what has already been painstakingly discussed with Roderick.
    But I don’t recall discussing “conspiracy theories.” So, if you’d like to discuss that, I’ll take the time.

  34. Watchful says:

    Johnw11 

    Well u certainly possess a helluva lot more patience than I ever will. 🙂

    I just don’t suffer fools who r steadfast in wallowing in their ignorance very well. 

    At any rate, I prefer to leave Roderick and those who think like him to their own devices.

  35. Jcontrary says:

    BigWood1 Most people do not want to admit that this system is operating EXACTLY as it was set up to run. It was NEVER meant for our upliftment or ascension. In order for IT to thrive; WE must be subdued and be the perennial Dalit’s or untouchables. There will be exceptions and notable and high profile ones at that; but they will forever under this sytem, be THE EXCEPTION. What percentage of the TOTAL population are the Oprahs & the Tylers & the Bob Johnsons? Black people soon after slavery owned less than 1/2 of 1% of the total US population & in the ensuing centuries til today, THAT is STILL the case. Black-ish (p)resident notwithstanding. The ONLY conversation going on is one of a prisoner of war pleading with his jailer/captor for better treatment and prison conditions. That is the only conversation we have EVER had in this country. Until we realize that no matter how gilded and ‘blinged’ out your cage–you are STILL in a prison that benefits from your imprisonment. That makes money off of your imprisonment. That gains legitimacy from your continued acquiescence. The only way this corrupt to it’s core system remains is b/c WE go along to get along. Period. Those in ‘power’ make up a tiny minority on this planet. They couldn’t do it on their own or without our complicity. They don’t call this a prison planet for nothing. And the irony is, the most depraved criminals are running the prison.

  36. BigWood1 says:

    Jcontrary BigWood1  Thank you Jcontrary. Unfortunately, the brainwashing has been so thoroughly comprehensive that the majority of Black people are doomed for a life of subjugation. Change begins with SELF and as long as most Black people continue to view Caucasian men as God and Son of God we will continue to be viewed as Beast of The Field destined for prison slavery. I have a great career in finance, I don’t use alcohol, drugs or commit crimes therefore, its not likely I will get caught up in the modern day slavery but I want my sleep walking brothers and sisters to wake up.

  37. Johnw11 says:

    Watchful Johnw11  “Patience is a virtue,” Brother.

  38. Watchful says:

    Johnw11 

    So I’ve been told … and I even agree with that … sometimes. 🙂

  39. soul60 says:

    BigWood1 Jcontrary – This is a great comment that will stay hidden on this site

  40. soul60 says:

    Jcontrary BigWood1 – As we know in this white dominated and white controlled society.
    A lot of people are scared,in denail and just  pathectic.
    So they go along to get along.
    A lot of us have more coming besides some low paying job

  41. BigWood1 says:

    This is a great observation and very true.

  42. GeorgiaJohnson says:

    You are right, To have a dialogue , You must start with TRUTH from Beginning  on RACE  In  American.  Some  White in this Country from Generation to Generation BELIEVE Black people are only Two third of HUMAN BEING,  Why should  they a Have dialogue  with people who are not HUMAN to them?  You can see that by the way they are killing our People today.

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