March 18, 2014 8:25 pm

5 Ways the Black Bourgeoisie Betrayed and Intentionally Undermined the Black Poor

Booker T Washington

by Yvette Carnell

One of the gravest mistakes having been made by the Black working poor over the past century has been to equate Black identity with Black politics, a case which is made clear by Dr. Adolph Reed in his book “Class Notes.” Not all Black people share the same circumstance and in fact, members of the Black bourgeoisie have actively sought and successfully engaged in practices which served to intentionally upend movements of the Black working poor.

1.) Labor activists often deride former Republican President Ronald Reagan for firing 11,000 airline workers for failing to return to work, but it was Maynard Jackson, Atlanta’s first Black mayor, who fired 2,000 striking Black sanitation workers. The sanitation workers, who earned an annual salary of $7,500 a year, hadn’t received pay increases in three years. Even though their union, AFSCME,  had supported Jackson, the mayor wasted no time firing them.

2.) At the start of the National Urban League, wealthy whites such as John D. Rockefeller and Julius Rosenwald were among its founders. Although the League talked a good game and supported collective bargaining for black workers nationally, the local Leagues acted in ways that benefited their white benefactors, even going so far as to break strikes and discourage Blacks from becoming too involved in the Labor movement. (Black Bourgeoisie, E. Franklin Frazier)

3.) In Up From Slavery, Booker T. Washington promised that Blacks would find their freedom only by giving in to white supremacy. In Washington’s mind, we were sure to persevere if only we worked hard and put our buckets down, and Booker’s route to liberation offered no significant remedies to curb white supremacy. And like many Black leaders, Washington was not a product of the Black community, but a designee of the white elite.

4.) In the book Ella Baker & The Black Freedom Movement, it is revealed that Baker, a civil and human rights activist, noted the limits in Dr. King’s leadership because of his membership in the Black Elite and noted the limits of Black charisma as opposed to a grassroots movement which empowered poor people:

“Baker described [Dr. King] as a pampered member of Atlanta’s black elite who had the mantle of leadership handed to him rather than having had to earn it, a member of a coddled ‘silver spoon brigade.’ He wore silk suits and spoke with a silver tongue.

 

“…In Baker’s eyes King did not identify enough with the people he sought to lead. He did not situate himself among them but remained above them.

 

“…Baker felt the focus on King drained the masses of confidence in themselves. People often marveled at the things King could do that they could not; his eloquent speeches overwhelmed as well as inspired.”

5,)  Although Minister Louis Farrakhan has taken an empowering stance in recent speeches, some of his earlier words have sounded much more like something coming from the far right than from a globally known Black leader.  During an interview with now defunct Emerge magazine, Farrakhan said that black people were sick, a diagnosis that would’ve been met with outrage had it been made by a Republican. And during an episode of “Donahue” in the 1990s, he said that Blacks suffered from a “dependent, welfare” mentality.  This served to pathologize black behavior and paint us as somehow inferior in comparison to our white counterparts. (Class Notes, p.52)

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102 Comments

  • Duku76 says:

    The problem is most if not all black leadership have price and can be bought…

  • Mother Eve says:

    Our black leadership has sold us out for money and social status. Free Mumia…Ashe’

  • BlackheywoodHeywood says:

    ooker T. Washington promised that Blacks would find their freedom only
    by giving in to white supremacy. In Washington’s mind, we were sure to
    persevere if only we worked hard and put our buckets down, and Booker’s
    route to liberation offered no significant remedies to curb white
    supremacy.
    This sound like President Obama, he’s said as much.

    Many Black people are psychologically ill, from the thug on the street who rob, harm and kill other Blacks to successful Blacks who ignore racism, blame Black folks for all the problems the in the Black community. Telling Black folks we must understand White racism and removed humanity from Black people.  The psychological damage manifests itself in many ways and from one spectrum to another, from poor Blacks to Bourgeoisie Blacks.That comes from not  being taught to love oneself as a Black person. Once you love yourself what others think of you, their racism, their psychosis all of that falls into place, those are their issues and burdens,not Black people. Once you love yourself you’ll love other Black folks too.

  • NAHMEANSON101 says:

    w.e.b . dubois maybe should have been the #1 COON on this list(hoebama arguably strong consideration as well..)..in his efforts to help derail our Greatest Leader in the western hemisphere The MESSIAH Marcus Garvey and the U.N.I.A………….

  • NAHMEANSON101 says:

    I often wonder what role masons play as well as traders to our Race..are they synonymous with the negro bourgeoisie COONS because most of them if not all are..The Brother/Ancestor Steve Cokley(ASHE) brought this to our attention..enemies(COONS)..amongst us..shit is sad.

    Good/Brave job Yvette exploiting a couple of our most infamous sellouts…….

  • Bkhater says:

    “The black bourgeoisie betrayed and intentionally undermined the black poor” was a poorly written piece that severely lacked depth and revealed no new information. I kept waiting for the stunning and shocking revaluation. Yawn!!!!!

  • psychugo says:

    This is new, now this author has taken things to a new or.  Usually Black people will congregate to complain about racisim with no proposed action. Now this author has led some commentators to congregate to complain  about dead people. 

    Furthermore, white supremacy is a myth, and no I am not denying that racisim exists. The real issue is that most Blacks secretly believe that whites are superior to them. This is why most of us often look to hero’s to rescue us.

  • Devon The Truth Teller says:

    Oh please, po’ azz black ppl who mess up their OWN LIVES doing stupid sheit STAY blaming successful black ppl or black ppl living right, for their bad choices. Black ppl who worked their asses off to have a good life don’t owe yall raggedy azzes a dayum thing. Stop doing dumb sheit that holds yall back and start making better decisions, take ownership of yalls own f@ckups.

  • LaceyPew says:

    Some people will take this as shockingly   new news . . .it ain’t! It’s just like how the story is told about Africans being enslaved by white people. True, but the white people did not go into the interior of Africa to get potential slaves . . . .FELLOW AFRICANS CAPTURED AND then s-o-l-d defeated from war/battles fellow Africans to white people, who STORED THEM ON GOREE ISLAND.!  Always remember: A ‘Colony’ is just an uppity way of saying ‘Plantation’ . . . .another way of saying working for somebody else! It has been HIStory, not THE STORY . . . FACTS MATTERS, you’d think?

  • Devon The Truth Teller says:

    Calling bullsheit on that mess, I love myself and SOME of my ppl, if you black and hurting and killing other black ppl who didnt do a dayum thing to them then f*ck them, they’re useless to the rest of black america.

  • RickyNegus says:

    LaceyPew I get so tired of Black people saying this and yet have none of the specifics. True Africans did sell conquered Africans to European Slavers and true slavery existed in Africa before European Colonialism same as every other place in the world. But what people  never know is that the slavery in Africa was in no way what so ever like European slavery. If a black man in Africa was enslaved he was probably a P.O.W  but he was never stripped of his human rights and he could also work his way up in the society of the so called enslaver. He was seen as a man not as a piece of property. When Africans sold these P.O.W’s to White slavers they thought the same sort of kinsmanship would be showed by the European, boy were they wrong. Uneducated black people  love to say we sold each other and don’t know a damn thing about what really happened. Facts do matter and you should wash away your ignorance and do some damn research. Slavery existed everywhere at all points in history but Europeans are the only people who stripped a man of his human rights, name, culture, and ancestral heritage and the savagery of the European was seen no where in Africa amongst their so called slaves. And FYI Europeans did go on raids and captured many Africans. If you are not going to research and bring home the whole story, then  don’t speak on it and let someone who knows what they are talking about speak. White people love to hear NEGROES talk this talk because it divides us and helps alleviate some of their guilt. Europeans, Asians, and any other race had captives, Hell Romans even made theirs fight to the death as gladiators. I never heard of Africa doing such barbaric things. Europeans practiced chattel slavery Africans didn’t. The African believed that the White man was capable of humanity such as himself but once again he was wrong. Just imagine if you were warring with a neighboring group and won and took captives. Some one wanted to purchase them from you. What would you do? Hell what are you gonna do with them anyway. You already won the war. My Brotha im not tryna call u out or disrespect u in any way but I just think you should get all the facts. .

  • BlackheywoodHeywood says:

    Devon The Truth Teller You don’t love yourself, your angry, negative response proves that. The first thing you reference are all the negative, hateful stereotypes fed to you  about Black people who look just like you. How is that loving yourself and those who look like you. If asked to describe yourself would you began with saying all the negative things said by others about yourself. You proved me correct, I hate to say but it’s true.

  • legalhood says:

    The article states that  Booker T. Washington promised that Blacks would find their freedom only by giving in to white supremacy. However, that is nowhere in any of his books or speeches. I wonder if the author ever read one on Booker T.’s books. Or is that quote taken from what others have said about him. I urge all Black folks to read the man who was born a slave and yet became powerful; the man who inspired Marcus Garvey and Malcolm X; and ignore all commentary on Booker T. before they actually read what HE has to say.

  • legalhood At some point, Blacks must come face to face with the truth: Booker T. Washington was wrong. The Atlanta Compromise accepted segregation as a way of life… and Washington gave in on voting rights. He basically called on blacks to leave whites and alone, in hope that blacks would be left alone in return, so long as they worked hard, kept to themselves, and persevered. This was an error in judgment with consequences that have reverberated for a generation.
    Washington having been born a slave has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of his decisions.

  • hiroader2 says:

    @Yvette Carnell… What people should consider regarding Booker T.Washington is at his day & time That Tuskegee initiatives was vital in the African-American military & labor movement during the countries industrial era.., The southern “sharecropping population ” sent young people to Tuskegee gated real estate, sanctuary and got mental & trade development which today threatens the outer community economy… Surely the current African-American representatives have looked the other way while civil & voter rights movements have been dismantled… Plus if someone wanted to see a great cultural & generation divide all they’d have to look at is pictures of the (suited) CBC & the tattooed hip hop generation., People will realize this is not the Blk conscious of Booker T segregated black community where three or four generations, various income status attended the same churches… There’s not an inner-city community today where the only growing progress has been the local hospitals and colleges buying up city properties to expansions of massive proportions in acreage.., These establishments/facilities are self supporting COMMUNITIES within themselves.., Their own security, medical, maintenance engineering dept, housing for staff and students, contractors & venders… The Tuskegee initiative was an example or blueprint on not only how to develope minds but community also…

  • hiroader2 That would be fine if we were discussing the importance HBCUs, but we’re discussing strategy. And Washington’s strategy, if you can even call it that, which rested on ignoring white supremacy and persevering in spite of it, was ill conceived and didn’t stand a chance at liberating black folk.

  • LaceyPew says:

    RickyNegus LaceyPew You have not refuted, disproved  or unfactualized  ANYTHING  I’ve said.  Sure they did ‘raids’  but DID NOT CONDUCT WARS FOR SLAVES,  you’d think? There are all kinds of slavery, but that was not in question. So what if ‘some’ white people love to  so-call like to hear ‘stuff’ but that does not vindicate what  people like them did in the past . . . which was wrong, bad and  impacted the lives of African Americans today–but not all the same way. You should get your Reply better focused, Me think!

  • JohnGavinWhite says:

    Yvette Carnell hiroader2  You’re not only making a stereotypically, crude reduction of Booker T. Washington’s politics, but also the historical circumstances undergirding his decisions. Ralph Ellison was often quoted as saying how Black folks have yet to deal with how was it that Booker T. was the most powerful Black politician the U.S. has ever seen (obviously, this is not counting the last few generations) – we may not like HOW he obtained the power but most have yet to take a critical look at how he, still, was able to aqcuire it, maintain and built upon it. It would intellectually dishonest and quite fallacious to reduce Booker T. Washington to some “yassa boss, no sir,” negro, licking the white man boots. On the contrary, one could argue – and many Black scholars have – Booker T. had an acute understanding of White Supremacy, hence his emphasis on ECONOMICS, which, taking from Dr. John Henrik Clarke, is but the systematic way a people choose to relate to each other. Dr. Clarke was often noted in saying how Black folks are always starting arguments where there are none – constantly throwing the baby out with the bathwater. “You take what’s needed from one individual, and what you don’t need, you throw it away. simple as that.” In short, Dr. Clarke pointed out that if we listened to Booker T., there wouldn’t be a single boarded-up house in “the ghetto.” And don’t frame Tuskegee in the context of HBCU’s but rather INSTITUTIONS in general. a people manifests themselves through institutions. Booker T. understood that. Again, you can disagree with the politics which gave him the platform to do what he did, but damn sisters, I don’t think you can quantify the effects of his institution. How many black folks have made there way, and will continue to make their way out into the world because of Tuskegee?

  • DarlaEdwards says:

    Legalhood, I’m glad you pointed that out. That same statement, you mention took me by surprise. I was in my early twenties when I read Up from Slavery, but at no point did I ever remotely remember even feeling that was being inferred.

  • DarlaEdwards says:

    JohnGavinWhite, I wish there was a standing ovation button. Well said. Oh how I like that you quoted one of my favorite people, John H. Clarke.
    It appears that today, our community still is not getting what Mr. Washington and Clark spoke of and did for the community.

  • Watchful says:

    hiroader2  

    While I agree with u on some of the points u made concerning certain aspects of Mr.Washington’s philosophy, primarily his views on us being economically self-sufficient. I also agree with his position on segregation because in many ways I think we were better off living separate from whites.

    That said, I guess I’m somewhat more inclined to side with Yvette’s premise that, ultimately, his approach probably would not have led to the liberation of our ppl. Of course, I could be wrong about that and I certainly not willing to lay a blanket condemnation on all that he stood for.

    BTW, I found a couple of clips on Mr.Washington for anyone who might be interested in learning a little more about him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07cispyOhWQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU2ll0JnGBI

  • JohnGavinWhite says:

    Watchful hiroader2  Thanks for the posting brother. If we’re gonna talk about the man, then let’s talk about THE MAN – all sophomoric sentiment and quasi-scholarly rhetoric fall to the waist side. The man was too multi-faceted to be reduced some mere “token.”

  • Watchful says:

    JohnGavinWhite

    No problem, to be honest, I haven’t watched as many of Dr.Clarke’s videos as I should have by now. 

    I also agree that we sometimes form our views and opinions of our leaders based on limited or incomplete information and/or knowledge of the totality of their life’s work. I’m as guilty of doing that at times as anyone. 

    But, the reason I say that I’m not sure Mr.Washington’s philosophy would have led to our liberation is bcuz of what happened when we did demonstrate a willingness and ability to establish self-sufficient communities, whites ended up attacking us eg.) Greenwood, Tulsa, Oklahoma and Rosewood, FL, to name a few.

    Just seems that no matter how hard we strive to live independently, at some point, whites just can’t seem to resist interfering with and destroying our efforts outta their intense and deeply rooted fear and hatred.

  • BlackheywoodHeywood says:

    JohnGavinWhite Yvette Carnellhiroader2  
    Booker T. had an acute understanding of White Supremacy, hence his emphasis on ECONOMICS
    Racism trumps economics in America. Ask all the wealthy Blacks who are treated as if that way. Black men worth millions made to prove the car they are driving is theirs, or having to Call Ahead to some stores to ensure entry. Ask Oprah who  experienced racism from folks she can buy and sell ten fold. Ask President Obama about it, better yet look at the picture of Governor Jan Brewer waving her finger in the face of the POTUS a Black man. Read the article how Latinos insulted him in front of his face.We all heard the illegal alien demand The President STOP DEPORTATIONS. All the money,education and notoriety is trumped by being Black in America. In that sense Booker T and you are incorrect.

  • JohnGavinWhite says:

    BlackheywoodHeywood JohnGavinWhite Yvette Carnell hiroader2  This is my last reply because everyone is a psuedo-scholar and half-ass historian. Brother, you are conflating the politics of a particular set of economic politics with CLASS as a whole. Your sentiment (and that’s all it is given how your “examples” to “refute” “Booker T. and I” are rudimentary at best and obviously wasn’t thought out properly, but then again, it’s all that’s required on a forum such as this where everybody can portray themselves as anything) would be better conveyed if you switch “economics” with “class.” The rest of your…”response”…I won’t even dignify with a direct response. At the end of the day brother, you clearly know little to nothing on Booker T. Washington, race and class in America, but hey, again, forums such as this are open to all, so I should have expected this. But for real, for real, your response is a prime example of why I’m a proponent of DuBois’ Talented Tenth theory. Some Negroes, quite simply, just have to be lead – everybody can’t possibly lead. No need to response internet scholar. I’m done here.

  • BlackheywoodHeywood says:

    JohnGavinWhite BlackheywoodHeywoodYvette Carnellhiroader2
    I’m a proponent of DuBois’ Talented Tenth theory. Some Negroes, quite simply, just have to be lead – everybody can’t possibly lead. No need to response internet scholar. I’m done here.
    While you may be a proponent of the “Talented Tenth” clearly you are not one of them. I am glad you know your place as a “negro”, I am a Black Man when you can lead yourself into being one, we can talk.Until  then be happy with your status as  ‘negro”. Good Day

  • Devon The Truth Teller says:

    Black ppl I love-
    Know how important marriage and two parent homes are in Black America.
    They raise their kids right and dont reproduce when they poor as sheit.
    Know the value of a good education.
    Move their families away from violent communities.
    Dont have a ghetto hood mentality
    Dont steal from, rape, rob, sell drugs to and murder their own ppl.
    Dont send their kids to sheitty schools.
    Strong black men get their wives and kids out the hood and move to safer neighborhoods
    Don’t keep laying up having random b@stard kids with random trifling azz women and men.
    Dont think education is for whites only
    Read a book
    Dont blame others for their own f@ck ups.
    Know that every brotha aint a brotha, that some black ppl are jealous of other black ppls success, goog black ppl should watch their back and keep the haters away from
    Black ppl who don’t talk and sound like a dayum slave.
    Care about their communities, keep their houses and yards neat.

  • hiroader2 says:

    Thanks .., this link of Dr. Henrik Clarke’s version expressed in a way I didn’t… The fact is the historic *1919 Red Summer made me skeptical about DuBois’s northern view compared to B.T.Washington’s “roll-up your sleeves ” method… During the 1919 events DuBois disappointed me with his constant pleas to the country’s most >racist president Woodrow Wilson for federal intervention… (that’s just me)..

  • hiroader2 says:

    @JohnGavinWhite…. Sure would’ve wanted to see what after the fact perspective asto why the Dubois & the talented tenth view “in that day ” was the right mind-set…. because the intellectuals of that day were just that intellectuals…

  • Watchful says:

    hiroader2  

    I think one thing I’ve gained from this thread is not to be so quick to judge some of our past leaders. I think it’s important to understand that just like many of us, they to, had to evolve. While they may have held to a certain philosophy at an earlier stage of their lives, they also may have grown to form a different understanding or perspective over the course of time. Individuals  such as Washington and DuBois r often far more complex than we may ever really be able to appreciate without having a close relationship with them.

    All we really have to go on is what we read or hear about them, which often is partial at best.

  • hiroader2 says:

    @Watchful …. Much respect for both public figures, your right… Though there’s a movie line “Your a better drummer, but you don’t have a band” *DRUMLINE.., How often do we repeat the Washington /DuBois, Martin /Malcolm mistake … Even today I make social & cultural mistake with members from groups like the (CBC) congressional black congress and the hip hop communities.., (that’s just me)… It benefits both groups to bridge together social compromise…

  • psychugo says:

    BlackheywoodHeywood JohnGavinWhite Yvette Carnell hiroader2  

    You want dominate over your brothers and sisters? Lol, how’s that working out for you? 

    You see that’s the problem, people like you only want to imitate bad habits of the white government that has oppressed you. 

    As for your fantasy of dominating over other blacks, someones have already beaten you to the punch. Both in the Americas and in Africa. Keep dreaming.

  • legalhood says:

    DarlaEdwards  The problem is that many of us have no clue what Booker T. had to say. Instead what DuBois has to say about him is whats reported today. Both men had diametrically opposite views of what it takes for Black folk to rise. So, we cannot take DuBois’ words to properly evaluate Booker T’s position. DuBois believed that most blacks were so tainted by the stench of slavery that they could not rise by themselves. The government was wasting resources on them. The government should put its resources into those few blacks who escaped having been subjugated to slavery (The Talented Tenth). They would in turn give back and lift up the other 90 percent of the race. Personally, I find reading DuBois’ position made me want to puke.
     Booker T.’s position was that all black folk can rise even the lowest born in the deepest of slavery. (Up from Slavery) By hard work, perseverance and proper assistance, all Blacks can be successful. 

    However, DuBois joined the all white NAACP and they loved his idea. They pushed it on the government and the consciousness of the American people. In order to do so, they had to belittle influential people like Booker T., Marcus Garvey (whom DuBois despised) and Malcolm X. Because so many influential whites preferred the idea, the prevailing philosophy for Blacks in this country is now a Talented Tenth model. Give people like me affirmative action and hope I return and give back. Its a philosophy that is causing Black neighborhoods to die. Because frankly its based on a silly premise. We need to go back to a philosophy that states all Blacks have the ability to rise and demand change in policies that will benefit all.

  • legalhood says:

    BlackheywoodHeywood JohnGavinWhite Yvette Carnell hiroader2  Amen.

  • legalhood says:

    Yvette Carnell legalhood  Then you have never read Booker T. And are parrotting what I often see is written of him.

  • legalhood Yvette CarnellJust because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they haven’t read Washington, or that you’ve somehow entered a wormhole that no one else has access to. You’ve yet to take on the merits of Washington’s choice to abandon legislative efforts and give his blessing to segregation.
    Having economics is fine, so long as whites aren’t allowed to run you off of farms you paid for, which routinely happened before and after the Atlanta Compromise. To combat white supremacy, you need legislation and enforcement. This “up from your bootstraps” and “throw your buckets” down meme is nonsense.

  • legalhood says:

    hiroader2  Booker T. was proven correct while he was a live. He just did not know the extent others would go to after his death to sully his name. While Booker T was alive and only 5 years after the end of the civil war, Blacks were in congress. Senators and congressmen. That is five years later. Some of the Black congressmen from the 1870’s, 1880s and 1890s were even born slaves. So DuBois was wrong about Black who were born in slavery and Booker T was correct. DuBois who spent years passing as white so hated the Black condition, he couldn’t deal with it. Blacks out of slavery also became mayors, members of legislatures, millionaires and on and on. Somehow that period is hidden because it doesn’t go along with the silly bigoted talented Tenth philosophy.

  • legalhood says:

    Yvette Carnell legalhood  Its not because you did not agree with me Yvette, its because you are making statements about Booker that is often circulated but he never said.
    So as I said, its difficult to have a discussion with someone who does not know what he actually said. 
    For example, Booker T. never gave his blessings to segregation. That is pure DuBois black hating ass analysis of his position. Booker clearly stated that you dont need laws alone. Without powerful economic foundations for Blacks, no set of laws are going to make a difference. The Talented Tenth/Affirmative Action model has ruled for the last 60 years and the vast majority of Blacks still live in segregated neighborhoods except just in economically depressed ones. All the prevailing model has done is allow the Talented Tenth to become wealthy and live in white neighborhoods which wasDubois passing desire any how. We need economic policies for the other 90 percent. Its time to actually read and listen to Booker, Marcus and Malcolm.

  • legalhood Yvette CarnellIt’s not about what he said, but what he did. Much can be gleaned from Washington’s actions, and it’s not a strained interpretive view to reach the conclusion that Washington thought black perseverance would mitigate the impact of white supremacy. He was wrong. Washington conceded the field of play to racists, and we’re still living the repercussions of that decision.
    And when you tell blacks to just cast their buckets down with no remedies for the KKK or thugs who are burning down their homes, you are giving your blessing to both segregation and white supremacy, since you’re not advocating a solution to these ills. Getting educated at Tuskegee won’t help you one iota if white racists can burn down everything you’ve built in one night…
    And DuBois has another set of failings which I won’t discuss here.

  • legalhood says:

    Yvette Carnell legalhood  At least your response is admitting that you know zero about what Booker T said or actually did. And for the lack of knowledge, a people continue to perish.

  • legalhood Yvette CarnellYou have still yet to tackle the merits of my criticism. Saying it ain’t so isn’t a valid counterpoint. At least twice, I’ve pointed you to the practical impact of the Atlanta Compromise, and at least twice you’ve ignored my point. So, yes, my people do perish for lack of knowledge. On that we can agree….

  • JohnGavinWhite Yvette Carnellhiroader2
    “We have to stop with this binary mode / either or type thinking which
    leaves us with many false dichotomies, among other things.”
    I’m not speaking in terms of binaries, which is why I never framed this as a Booker T. Washington vs. W.E.B. DuBois conversation. You’re framing it that way, but I’ve never presented it that way. In that sense, you’re arguing against a case that I’m not making. It’s a strawman argument…
    “On the contrary, one could argue – and many Black scholars have – Booker
    T. had an acute understanding of White Supremacy, hence his emphasis on
    ECONOMICS,..”
    Many scholars have attempted to make Washington fit their specific framework, but tell me, what were the merits of the Atlanta Compromise? And again, what good are economics if the law doesn’t protect you?
    What you’re attempting to do here is thread a needle, as if ONLY Washington’s work building Tuskegee mattered. No, Washington was a Black conservative, and those conservative values, which excluded a strong role for the federal gov’t in helping to eradicate white supremacy, were detrimental to black people. The Atlanta Compromise DID accept segregation and it DID argue against a black political movement as a pathway to liberation. That was a betrayal.

  • legalhood DarlaEdwards
    “DuBois believed that most blacks were so tainted by the stench of slavery that they could not rise by themselves.”
    And Washington believed that both Native Americans and Blacks were savages when they came in contact with the white man. I’d think you’d know that, considering how you read Booker T. Washington’s words and all…

  • psychugo says:

    Yvette Carnell JohnGavinWhite hiroader2  
    “And again, what good are economics if the law doesn’t protect you?”

    Laws are not designed to protect people. rather they are designed to keep as many people as possible docile and submissive.

    In the absence of laws, people thrive. If Black people where to regroup and start their own communities, security would no doubt have to be taken into account. For example, a small community could hire a well trained security firm to address security issues for the community.

    I don’t believe in segregation, however I don’t believe in forcing people to mingle with others they don’t want to mingle with.

    The KKK, never had any power, they were merely tools used by secret societies that control the government to keep Blacks in line and further subjugate them.

  • psychugo Yvette CarnellJohnGavinWhitehiroader2
    “Laws are not designed to protect people.”
    What? We have laws against murder and rape to discourage people from murdering and raping. We have anti-discrimination laws to protect minorities from discrimination, so yes, laws are designed to protect. They may very well have other real and tangible effects, but that’s how laws work, be they to protect property (intellectual or real) or liberty. To say otherwise is to misinterpret the purpose of the entire legal system.
    There is an absence of laws right now in Somalia? Are they thriving? I’m not diminishing anarchy or anarchist theory, but in a country where white supremacy reins supreme and whites are the majority, laws were necessary. Both the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were essential, as were labor laws brought about prior to the Civil Rights movement (which, incidentally, began long before MLK.)

  • psychugo says:

    Yvette Carnell psychugo JohnGavinWhite hiroader2  

    I respectfully disagree. As someone who grew up in Africa and very familiar with African politics, I can tell you that most people in Somalia, as doing much better than they did under the previous oppressive government.

    Of course the American media would portray otherwise. 

    Further, I am not afraid of so called white supremacists. At the end of the day, they are human like myself and just as vulnerable. If push comes to shove, God willing, I will be the victor in defending my and my family’s lives.

    When Black people remain conditioned to believe in the illusionary power of the  government, they give up their personal responsibility, and ultimately their freedom.

    All the advances made in America today by Black people, from the shackles of slavery to present day, have come only by the Will of Black people, not the government.

    The laws put into place, since the civil rights movement, have really been jedi mind tricks to get as many Blacks as possible back to embracing subjugation, least they continue to inspire the rest of the world.

  • psychugo says:

    Yvette Carnell psychugo JohnGavinWhite hiroader2  

    Furthermore, if most Whites believed in the myth of white supremacy, they would have disregard the “laws” and collectively committed mass genocide against Blacks in America.

    Laws don’t keep people safe, it just seems that way, because most people are good.

    The burden Blacks have always dealt with and continue to deal with, comes from government.

  • Watchful says:

    hiroader2  

    I feel ya. I think, for me at least, I believe in ‘eating the meat and leaving the bones’. In other  words, I feel we should take from our leaders that which we find to be beneficial and reject what we deem to be detrimental to our progress as a ppl.  We must always be mindful that all leaders have their flaws and we should also try to guard against forming opinions of them based solely on their mistakes.

  • DarlaEdwards says:

    Yvette Carnell,
    I will read the book again. As I stated, it was many years ago that I read Up from Slavery. As we all know, views, understandings and opinions that we had in our twenties, hopefully have evolved by the times we mature to our forties.
    My dear sister, I rarely take anyone’s one as the last word. I was in no way saying that your view was wrong; it simply it simply stuck out and caught me off a little. I do believe I stated that I Didn’t recall/remember having your same opinion, when ever I had read the book. I thank you for your article and for the book(s) names. I will pull out my old copy of Up from Slavery as well as begin to read other of his works, as well as other writings of DuBois. Thanks again for starting this recent discussion.

  • hiroader2 says:

    @Yvette Carnell…… Oh you want to go there with the Atlanta compromise and all!!!!!… lol… So I went there 1895 and found you were write, rite, (cough) um right, to a point.. But so was the Hendrik Clarke link “Booker T.Washington was no dummy”…
    By your mentioning the African-American politicians of that Reconstruction Era I had to find out what happened to them.. Problem was Booker T.Washington. came (1895) after their dismissal… Their dismissal was part of the same “conservative” scam we’re falling for then in 1877., That exist with the budget spending & tax breaks song today…. (No WMD’s though) Those black representatives then (like today) -were told. RECONSTRUCTION. was costing to much,(1877) taken up to much tax dollars then (1877).. It all came home while reading the (1866) democrats called themselves CONSERVATIVES then… Who took over politically then as they are now … The Atlanta Compromise was just an echo of policy already set in play In 1895…. Truth is since they’re playing around with patriot acts, privacy infringements, gerrymandering ,voters rights & civil rights … History actually repeating itself with modern technology…..

  • legalhood says:

    Yvette Carnell JohnGavinWhite hiroader2  

    It is a binary thing. Because even the nascent criticism of Booker T that you attempt came from DuBois and later circulated by the white NAACP. So you are arguing from a position you dont fully understand. Even the term, Atlanta Compromise has nothing to do with his words but came from NAACP critics long after he died. Booker T had no compromise on his mind or in his words when he gave that speech.

    And the real question is what are laws on the books if our kids dont have economic opportunities? Furthermore, you would not be able to find one line in Booker T’s writing which called for lack of laws. Rather he was instrumental in getting a whole ton of laws passed for the protection of Blacks. That is why it sounds binary to you. You are using the arguments of a man who hated Blackness against Booker T without knowing it. I am just trying to point that out to you.

    And if you think all Booker did  was build Tuskegee, then you are mistaken. While Booker was alive, he was so powerful that no white man in the south could get approved for a government job or contract without his say so.

    Booker T was a more powerful and accomplished man who was born into slavery and proved that Blacks are equal humans whether or not they were born in slavery. The sellout to the Black cause was the man whose arguments you use against Booker T without ever once examining what he himself had to say.

  • DaleAlexander says:

    The Black Bourgeoisie

  • Watchful says:

    Yvette Carnell

    “and enforcement”. 

    And therein lies the problem IMO.

  • Watchful says:

    psychugo

    ” All the advances made in America today by Black people, from the shackles of slavery to present day, have come only by the Will of Black people, not the government.

    The laws put into place, since the civil rights movement, have really been jedi mind tricks to get as many Blacks as possible back to embracing subjugation, least they continue to inspire the rest of the world.”

    I definitely agree with those comments.

  • Bedeviled67 says:

    Thanks for having the courage to broach this issue, because this is an ongoing social phenomenon. In my opinion, the kind of thinking that finds expression among that Black elite, are contributing factors regarding the utter chaos, confusion, unemployment, the dissolution of our family systems, and the lack of morally upright leadership that bedecks our communities. We need to focus on solutions regarding this matter. Keep and keeping on.

  • HassanHartley1 says:

    I disagree with point 5,but good article

  • HassanHartley1 says:

    Agreed! #Tuskegee

  • AllenShaw says:

    While I am sure most of the remarks are well thought out and
    in today’s world and 20/20 hindsight “dead on” in their correctness, please
    remember!When Booker T. Washington was
    living and attempting to solve problems he had a few realities to face that those
    of you living today can only imagine.

    You may all be well read and intelligent, but you did not
    live at the time you are discussing!
    Perhaps, rather than talking about what was done incorrectly
    over a hundred years ago, when lynching’s were an everyday occurrence, the
    conversation could turn to a subject such as “What are we to do now?

  • Stickhoss says:

    I think this is just a reminder for those who don’t know and a wake up call to those who think it doesn’t happen today. Blacks have been told for years to be patient,  don’t rock the boat.  And it’s usually a person with a good job or a better seat on the boat who want the rest of the people to wait and usually those people aren’t poor like the people they tell to wait.  Just because a person is black or seen by others as being  black,  don’t mean they take a stand for black causes or issues.  Separate never Equal…  IJS

  • Michaelnurse4900 says:

    All due respect to my many seniors. God blessings to you all. I applaud the writer of this article and for addressing a burning issue that continues to plague our times. Black apathy, ignorance and downright betrayal of black causes by the black intelligentsia and bourgeoisie class. Please understand I am not attempting to paint any group or subgroup with the same brush. I am referring to those people who have unabashedly allowed their public persona to become one and the same with uncle Tom.
    People are only human and will be subject to individual frailties; perhaps also, limited influences that shape them to be as congruent to their own value systems as anyone else. The problem arises when these very people benefit from black privilege to rise above; then suddenly, after the election, the record or movie sales, the love and support from the masses, they lose touch, become aloof and motivated to ingratiate themselves with the newly acquired status.
    Today we have a class of ex-ghetto people that are calling themselves, ‘the new black’. They have seemly shrugged off all the history and pain of oppression, having become too rich and universally accepted to identify with the struggle.
    I agree with Yvette. Booker T. was wrong. How could we forget Tulsa. It was jealousy, and hate for black success that triggered the massacre. There is no real success and protection in second class striving. A recent publication linking land grabs in the south was strongly correlated to lynchings. Historically, black success in America has always been targeted by the white propaganda machine, soon to be followed by the police. Too often blacks have made themselves ready victims to everything that chimes into their skewed negative sense of themselves.
    Separate but equal is a fools dream. If you begin as equals you have a fair chance regardless, but black people are born with many hurdles and rivers to cross. The concept of white supremacy is too heavy a burden for a people to bear. Blacks have forever been relegated to second class, in a society that values them less, merely because of blackened skin. We can never underestimate what this truly means.

  • hiroader2 says:

    I already had disagreed with the authors ideology regardless the premise for calling bourgeoisie individuals whatever… In the post reconstruction era 1890’s~1940’s in the south there weren’t the same liberations the W.E.B Dubios and his (armchair equal rights quarterbacking) Niagara group had in the north.. Those who traveled to the south didn’t roll up their sleeves and help out much instead they ran back up north and published newspapers… Meanwhile in the belly of the beast (the south)., Where no white man could be prosecuted for killing a black man. TUSKEGEE was pulling sharecroppers children out of the cotton fields and opening up schools throughout the southern regions of the south… as a group leaders , representatives, teachers, nurses as a group stepped up… Talk to a Tuskegee graduate… On the other hand during the riots & lynchings the northern (equal rights) group begged for the racist president from Kansas to stop the violence against blacks. Begged!… Who nonchalantly “Oh that’s just the Boy’s blowing off a little steam”… But in the south Tuskegee work was getting done… Nothing national as a group got equal rights until the southern contention got up as a group…. I make this same point about grassroots & political agendas … We just have a bunch of represeor intatives.just going to work.., bringing no thing out or into national conscious ….

  • GeorgiaJohnson says:

    Michaelnurse4900 I am a senior everything In your Comment I agree with.

  • StudentWarrior says:

    AllenShaw with respect, that’s nothing more than a copout. 1) There’s no longer any value in the notion that ‘because you weren’t alive on that day, you can’t appreciate the circumstances’. That fallacy doesn’t fly anymore, and it’s very indicative of why we’re in the current conditions. 

    2) It’s safe to presume that ‘Black’ folks back then were not anymore significantly cognizant of their situation, as the percentage alive today. I’m aware that the fearless children were consistently taking the risk, while the adults were adamant about ‘not causing no trouble’. So, these fallacies don’t hold up. They never have.

    3) You close out with yet another common play, challenging the dissent to submit what they’re doing TO REPAIR THE DAMAGE CAUSED BY THE ELDER GENERATIONS – whilst they continue to SABOTAGE EFFORTS BY THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS TO HELP MOVE BLACK PEOPLE TOWARD BEING SELF-DETERMINING. 

    If you read what I’ve submitted and you still choose to hold on to those 3 fallacies, then that is indeed indicative of the problem.
    Peace

  • StudentWarrior says:

    HassanHartley1 Right. Notice there was nothing quoted to show that Farrakhan submitted something that was not accurate.

  • AllenShaw says:

    StudentWarrior AllenShaw 
    Please see remarks inside *** with respect, that’s nothing more than a
    copout. 1) There’s no longer any value in the notion that ‘because you weren’t
    alive on that day, you can’t appreciate the circumstances’. That fallacy
    doesn’t fly anymore, and it’s very indicative of why we’re in the current
    conditions. 
    ***My statement was that Booker T. Washington acted according to the life he
    was living. ***
    2) It’s safe to presume that ‘Black’ folks back then were not anymore
    significantly cognizant of their situation, as the percentage alive today. I’m
    aware that the fearless children were consistently taking the risk, while the
    adults were adamant about ‘not causing no trouble’. So, these fallacies don’t
    hold up. They never have.
    ***I don’t understand what you are talking about, so I can’t respond***
    3) You close out with yet another common play, challenging the dissent to
    submit what they’re doing TO REPAIR THE DAMAGE CAUSED BY THE ELDER GENERATIONS
    – whilst they continue to SABOTAGE EFFORTS BY THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS TO HELP
    MOVE BLACK PEOPLE TOWARD BEING SELF-DETERMINING. 
    ***My statement was “what are we to do today”.Please notice I used the word we.
    The Elder Generation is mainly retired and out of the limelight.I don’t know what you mean by sabotage, since
    they are not taking any actions. If you mean that no one who is elder is allowed
    to speak, you should say that. ***

  • LaRomeArmstrong says:

    well ,what Min.Farrakhan said was true and I don’t think he meant every single Black person, however I think he was and is very correct in his assessment overall. Black people are sick and white people are even sicker..

  • StudentWarrior says:

    AllenShaw You’ve said, “My statement was that Booker T. Washington acted according to the life he was living”, in response to my charging you with an appealing to age fallacy. 
    “You may all be well read and intelligent, but you did not live at the time you are discussing!”; this statement goes far beyond pointing out that Washington was playing the hand he was dealt.
    If you couldn’t comprehend my assertion that Negros were just as competent yesterday, as they are today, then perhaps you should reconsider your entire position on the subject. 
    “What are we to do now?”

    We’re going to talk about what was done incorrectly – 100, 200, 400, 500, 1K years ago – period. If you don’t like it, then you don’t need to be a part of “we”. Elders failed at leading. Now, is time for them to learn how to follow, especially since (as you say) “they are not taking any actions”; and you’re failing to see how that – in and of itself – isn’t sabotage.

  • GeorgiaJohnson says:

    StudentWarrior AllenShaw Excuse me for getting in your exchange while reading your comment you said that the Elder need to follow the YOUNG ? You can’t LEAD if you never FOLLOW  as an Elder my self our young should RESPECT the Generation who came before,  I will follow young people Two thing i must have first Respect. second If they know WHO they are,You must respect the Past without it you don’t know where you are GOING ,When you speak of Negro from yesterday have you any idea how INSULTING YOU SOUND TO me a Generation who lead the way for your Generation? Elder are still leading in my City where they are shutter of Water there are OLDER folk demonstration everyday. Waiting for some more of our young to join in and take the LEAD. PEACE

  • hiroader2 says:

    @StudentWarrior… Please consider the students who protested at the Florida State capital against the stand-your-ground law.., The North Carolina students who protested tea party voter gerrymandering against black college students.., Also the civil rights violations of the Bloomberg stop-n-frisk law.. Now consider ALL the career long black representatives who publicly said nothing and kept the pay checks rolling in.., The students who’ve eventually lack leverage and went home… Surely thing can’t be compared to Booker T. Washington’s 1890’s ~1950’s Tuskegee Initiatives… We’re talking deep south belly of the beast “No white man get convicted for killing black people south”… 1919’s Red Summer lynchings & riots (massacres like Rosewood, Houston, East St Louis) devastated black communities… Meanwhile northerners like W.E.B Dubios and his Niagara group published news papers from the sanctuary of the north., The Tuskegee effort was uplifting esteem, developing skills, changing the region with teachers, instead of sharecropping the students were introduced to the industrial age, agriculture, etc… I say this because once the southern region of African Americans sent their young people to places like Tuskegee for development., That’s when movements for equality & civil right began… Oppose to all the writings by Dubios about equality it was a time to roll the sleeves up and bring the “people” up and that was B.T.Washington’s Tuskegee Initiative, the Bordentown schools… It’s called FARMING… Crops of people, harvesting… During the Jewish holocaust, they sorted thru the people to find those with skills & trades… That’s what’s been defunded and eliminated in the current generations.. Apprenticeships should be started at 14 & up.., Instead of the secular influence of the criminalistic brainwashing of underclass trends…. Your motivation is right, But your numbers are to few… That was the difference between Du Bios and Washington…. The “talented tenth opposed to the developed hundreds”….

  • AllenShaw says:

    StudentWarrior AllenShaw 
    Did you say competent? I doubt if many individuals living
    today are as competent as Booker T. Washington was. If they are they are not a
    part of this group of young individuals that you are speaking about.They are today, probably a President or
    leader of some large organization.

    If you believe that anyone living today can comprehend what
    Booker T. Washington or any other of the Black leader of the past have faced by
    reading, you have misunderstood what you have read. Every single day of Booker
    T. Washington’s life he was a witness to unbelievable cruelty to Blacks in the
    South,
    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingsstate.htmlhttp://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingyear.html
    Blacks denied justice in the courts, a Supreme Court that
    did not consider Blacks to be human, theft of homes and farms, White owners of
    property cheating labor, Black farmers being required to sell their crops at
    unfair prices, with no recourse except jail and beatings, each day of his Black
    existence threatened by the Whites with retaliation for his words. Neither you,
    nor I who has experience service in an all-Black Military Unit, can even start
    to understand why he did what he did. The difference between you and I is I
    respect our Black Hero’s and you don’t.You are an egotistical individual who has not experience sufficient responsibilities
    for your actions to temper your thinking. You are or wish to be a worrier like “George
    Armstrong Custer led approximately 210 men to their deaths in the Montana
    wilderness” a seeker of glory at the expense of others. And you probable enjoy
    a certain charisma which will enable a group of individuals to follow you!
    If those of us who would advise a little wisdom wish to
    speak, perhaps it would be better if you though a little before you dismissed
    us.There may be a tiny possibility that
    those who came before you and some of those surrounding you may have some words
    for you to hear!
    Worriers fight wars;
    people with wisdom Lead Nations!

  • StudentWarrior says:

    AllenShaw narcissistic ageism and psychological projection nullifies any so-called wisdom you would offer; and you reaffirm why ‘Black’ youth are absolutely justified in not following behind these arrogantly incompetent so-called elders who think respect should be afforded them by virtue of being able to stay alive.

  • StudentWarrior says:

    GeorgiaJohnson You did not properly comprehend my post. I wasn’t advising any particular individual to do anything. Your generations have no credibility to speak on leadership, regardless of the efforts that have been taken to modify the definition of what “leadership” is – to fit y’all’s selective context. Your generations led the youth into a burning house. Then, and now, roasting them for food; and demand to be respected. Very delusional, and self-serving your generations are. Hence, the mess y’all have created. Take responsibility and have courage to acknowledge that your generations failed, BEFORE trying to lecture on leadership. ‘Respect us, because we’re alive’, just isn’t going to cut it anymore. 

    When reality hits, you’ll realize that your generations have done nothing to be respected. I’m sure don’t want to continue perpetuating the ‘something for nothing’ attitude that’s so pervasive in this society.

  • AllenShaw says:

    StudentWarrior AllenShaw 
    Sally forth young warrior!  May the force be with you!

  • Stickhoss says:

    Out of millions only one at a time is chosen to show inclusion for Blacks, telling the rest to wait. Booker T  was not a product of the Black community, but a designee of the white elite,  Is that why they made Obama President?   After-all he’s not a product of the Black community and shows it in his actions or his refusal to act on behalf of Blacks.  Every White politician protects the rights of whites even when they march with Blacks.  Most Black,  so-called leaders are self-serving and support any cause promoted by whites.  Seems that Black politicians only agenda is to become a career politician and not solve any of the problems in the communities they were sworn to SERVE.  Dinners, luncheons and black tie events and patting each other on the back and giving each other accolades is what the black politician of today is all about.

  • GeorgiaJohnson says:

    Stickhoss I couldn’t have said it better.

  • LiccMySmiles says:

    On point!

  • queenofmeanest says:

    Devon The Truth Teller 
    Stop stealing from the successful and not so successful blacks.

  • Ddot365 says:

    I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until I read the comment about the Honorable Louis Farrakhan Muhammad.
    Exactly what did the minister say that was incorrect? We ARE a sick people, mentally and physically. We are physically sick because we eat the wrong foods. We eat junk food, genetically engineered food. We are in love with pork. We eat shrimp
    And other bottom feeders. What we eat is really not food at all. Remember, you are what you eat.
    In the past, the black man was a “super man”, he was physically superior. How else could we survive the trip from Africa? Disease ran rampant thought the ship. The weaker ones were thrown over board. Only the strongest survived the journey.
    We ARE mentally sick due to our experience in this country. Look at our actions. Do they suggest the working of a sane mind? We kill each other on a daily basis. We actively work against those trying to help us. We embrace those that seek to harm us.
    As far as I’m concerned, Minister Farrakhan is right and exact in his diagnoses of black people in this country. Not only is he right and exact, but he offers the only viable solution for our problem.
    Instead of looking outside of ourselves and our community for help. We need to focus on helping ourselves. We need to pool our resources and conduct business amongst ourselves. Instead of taking every opportunity to tear each other down, we need to find the positive in each other and build on that.
    Peace!

  • JeffMuekler says:

    Stickhoss Barak Obama was chosen by the white liberals.  White Media to be more on the point.  Sharpton’s numerous visits to the white house is just a play to keep blacks calm even though they continue to struggle and decline financially under in policies.

  • queenofmeanest says:

    Yvette Carnell legalhood 
    I am speaking for myself.  I had the pleasure of growing up in both worlds, segregation and integration.  At the time I did not realize until I was much older that blacks did fare much better economically during segregation.  We had our own businesses, banks, grocery stores, etc.  We kept the money in our community in spite of Tulsa, Rosewood, Houston and other racially devastated communities.

    Even with integration blacks are treated less than humanly via mind games, current racially segregated laws and the other pseudo fluff that certain African Americans fall for now.

    As you and I both know that when blacks do for themselves whites will always come by to stir up shit.  Three months before my father passed, he finally told s about his parents killed during the Rosewood riots.  A family took him in and raised him.  He did not go much into detail with the exception that he saw his parents murdered.

    My father started his own landscaping business while working in the meat packing business.  When he died, I inherited his landscaping business and to this day it is still going strong even though I am working in another industry.  My mother started her own bookkeeping business, while working as a maid for whites and eventually retiring from a food industry business.  Her business is still going strong under the leadership of one of my brothers.  He is a CPA, retired military and yet the business still carries her name, out of respect for her dedication and sacrifice to the family.

    Can we have it both ways?  I don’t know.  If blacks stop this Jerry Springer bullshit and get their act together, maybe we can prosper just like we did back in the times of segregation.  Maybe blacks can prosper if we can bring back the black infrastructure that made us prosper in the past.

  • AllenShaw says:

    queenofmeanest Yvette Carnell legalhood 
     I believe that you were living in a large city somewhere in the
    south like San Antonio Texas, Huston, Texas, Birmingham, Alabama, etc. Yes
    there were some very wealth Black people and today they continue to exist.
    However, if you want to make any comparisons to how the poor Black
    people lived in the United States before integration and today you are sadly
    mistaken. You do not have a clue of the misery and fear that existed when
    people were controlled by the Jim Crow system.
    Please think before your write such statements.
    By now it makes no difference what Booker T Washington said or did;
    it has all been washed over by those who wish to change what he was trying to
    do at the time he was trying to do it. No young person can imagine what motivated
    any Black leader who was living in those days. While you read the words you do
    not understand the thinking!
    When are Black people going to wake up and realize that those men
    attempted to effect change when most Black people were so afraid that they
    could barely breathe around Whites.
    Please stop attempting to destroy the work of others and get on with the job
    of doing something today!

  • AllenShaw says:

    Yvette Carnell legalhood DarlaEdwards 
    Reading is not always understanding!
    Both of the men being mentioned in these comments were great thinkers facing problems that no one today has any ability to grasp!
    Let us learn to respect these great men and move on and find some new leader for today!

    A leader who understand the conditions now!

  • queenofmeanest says:

    AllenShaw queenofmeanest Yvette Carnell legalhood 
    I was born and raised west of the Mississippi. I do remember the civil rights movement. I do not live in the south, but I have a office in the south.  Allen you have no clue as to how I lived in the segregated west.  So therefore, do not tell me how to write anything about anything.  I am not a apologist.

    My first experience with white supremacy was visitng my great grandmother in Meridian, MS.  I was only 4 at the time.  Yes, I remember things I did when I was 18 mos. old.  My grandmother and I was visiting a store owned by one of the murderers of the three civil rights workers.  I was never raised to look down when a white person approached.  I was taught to look them straight in the eye and do not blink.
    The klansman aka the sheriff looked at me and said, I see that gal does not know her place.  She is supposed to look down or away when a white approach.  My grandmother said, what it is about a 4 y.o. scares you that you have to threaten her?  This was a lynchable offense.  You would not know about that would you?
    The sheriff said I will let slide this time, but next time she would not be so lucky and neither will you.  The next day those three civil rights workers disappeared.  My family did not leave Mississippi until those three young brave men were found.
     I also attended the March on Washington when I was three.  My mother
    made me wear black patent leather shoes and my feet overheated and I
    took those shoes off and threw them away. Yet, I remember the words of
    the speakers that day.

    I also remember marching with my parents in Selma.  Where were you?

    I also remember my mother and I
    being booted of a  Continental airlines flight  when I was a child and I
    remember a flight attendant told us that we could not ride on the plane
    because no ni**ers were allowed on the plane. Where were you?

    I remember the stories about the real men in my family who lost their lives fighting against the white man/men who tried to rape and kill their women.  Are you in that category?

    I may not have been running around trying to gain acceptance in the 30s and 40s but I do remember the stories of relatives whose lives were lost because they did not put up with the white man’s nonsense.  Both men and women.Great aunts and uncles lynched for protecting themselves and their families.

    I remember the Woolworths lunch counters feeding whites only.  I remember the whites only drinking fountains and bathrooms. 

    I understand the thinking very well during the days of segregation.  Blacks went from kings and queens to being slaves and cowards.  I understand the philosophy that you work and build up your village and community.  I understand the African American way of thinking after integration that the white man’s ice is colder and therefore we should do business with the white man only.  Some of my relatives lost their black owned grocery stores when the white man opened his business and undercut the prices so that blacks would not support black owned businesses.  Are you in that category?

    I have heard the stories about how blacks lived during the Jim Crow era from my Great grandfather and the stories he told me about his mother who came to this country as a slave from Africa.  He told me about her being raped, beaten repeatedly by her white master and his sons. 

    I also remember hearing about my great great aunt coming home from her baptism only not making it home because she was kidnapped, beaten, raped and murdered.  Her body was dumped on her mother’s front porch. I remember when my great grandfather told me how my great grandmother’s mother got her revenge on the white man that murdered her daughter by feeding him poison that ate him from the inside out before he died.

    So don’t you ever tell me how to understand the weak way of thinking.  So I suggest that you get off your knees and start doing something today?

    BTW, do you hire blacks to work for your company?  I do and my company sends black youth to college for job training.  What have you done lately besides cowering to the white man?

  • AllenShaw says:

    queenofmeanest AllenShaw Yvette Carnell legalhood 
    Please do not jump on me!
    You arrived at the end; I integrated the Air Force in 1949
    after being in a Black military for four years. I left Alabama in 1968, having
    lived there for about two and a half years. I was there when Gov. Wallace was
    forced to open the doors to students. I was in Louisiana for one year in 1955
    and I lived in a segregated San Antonio, Texas in 1949. There were Black
    Doctors, Dentist Lawyers, store owners, Clubs school teachers, Principles of
    schools. Today, all of the same positions are occupied by Blacks; however I
    never heard of any large Black companies. Perhaps you can name some for me? Yes
    there were Black hotels in the large cities. I remember staying in Texarkana,
    Texas. I had to pay for all of the beds in the room plus the room to have privacy
    because each was separate two men for one bed. Two beds each room. Last hotel
    was in Kentucky near a military base that was used for the single man pleasure.
    I have the highest regard for those Black and White individuals
    who marched; however they did not march to be segregated they marched to be
    relieved of a system of injustice that you cannot even perceive of.
    You cannot read a
    book and feel the fear of living in the south during Jim Crow. You cannot hear
    the words of another and know the fear of Jim Crow. You have to feel it when it
    is in your face and you can find yourself almost suffocating knowing that it
    can kill you and you can do nothing about it. And you cannot as a 2 year old
    child realize the danger you and your parents were in.
    When I was in the service we used to refer to conversations
    as “selling wolf tickets”. I believe many young people today only dream of what
    they would have done had they lived in the “Jim Crow South”.
    You remember a south that was well into transition. When I
    was born people in the south were being lynched. They were forced to live on
    the land that they had been on since slavery and failing to do so could not be
    employed anywhere.
    I did not march in the civil right movement, I was retire
    from the military than, so good for you and your family.
    Now let us talk about what I responded too. You said it was
    better to be separated yet your own stories of your past family could not
    support any such conversation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#/media/File:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.svg
    I do understand the unemployment problems today; I do
    understand the concentration of Blacks into area where there is no work. I do
    not understand why if you think Blacks can do any better away from Whites there
    are no successful businesses growing in the Black communities. What is holding
    up all of the success that I read about? Cities like Chicago and Detroit where
    Blacks are already concentrated should have large Black stores by now, what is
    the hold up? Can’t the Nation of Islam with all of their members start some
    businesses?
    What is holding up the Blacks in the south from starting businesses,
    just look at how many Blacks there are in the southeast corner of United States?
    I believe in the integration of races and ethnic groups and
    I believe in competition. I believe in education and I believe in a positive attitude.
    All of my life I worked my butt off to compete and to earn a wage for my
    production. ! I do not have a chip on my shoulder. Now I realize that is just
    me and I am probable wrong; however I find it interesting that two of our
    smartest Black educators are attacking each other rather than creating any
    positive thinking for Black advancement. I see no successful Black banks in the
    south where Blacks are heavily concentrated. Why is there not more training of
    Blacks for skills which they could perform?
    Finally, I see many comments attacking President Obama for
    failing to provide assistance for Blacks while not ever reading many articles
    about the understand of the economic system of this nation or the fact that the
    President does not have the power to spend money which has not been authorized by
    Congress. I do not read comments that make me believe that many Black people understand
    that President Obama is not a Dictator and he has an active Congress along with
    many Black voices working to destroy him!
    I never have any comment about the ancestors that will be negative.
    I have been retired for years!

  • queenofmeanest says:

    AllenShaw queenofmeanest Yvette Carnell legalhood 
    I have no idea as to what makes you think that I have arrived at the end.  This is an ongoing battle even though you got off the wagon. When the dogs was ordered to attack blacks, you left.  No you ran in the other direction.  You remind me of Granddad from Boondocks that ran home to get a rain coat when the hoses was turned on the blacks.
    When King died, you walked away and let the movement die.  Your reasoning for that:  Well King is dead and who do we have now to lead us?  Why didn’t you lead?  Oh, that’s right. You retired.

    You are on the inside looking in. Walking away from that window is easier to deal with than dealing with the outside forces when “YOU” feel that the situation is too overwhelming.  
    DuBois was a BOULE.  He thought his shit did not stink. He was an Elitist. DuBois wanted acceptance by whites to validate his right to breathe air. DuBois hated Garvey as well. 

    You said { I do
    not understand why if you think Blacks can do any better away from Whites there
    are no successful businesses growing in the Black communities. What is holding
    up all of the success that I read about? Cities like Chicago and Detroit where
    Blacks are already concentrated should have large Black stores by now, what is
    the hold up? Can’t the Nation of Islam with all of their members start some
    businesses}
    First of all, when integration kicked in, black banks and other businesses died out because blacks thought that the white man’s ice was colder and that white was right.  I bet you was the first out of the gate doing business with a white business instead of keeping your dollars in the black community. Hell, I do not do business with the Asians.
    Black capital/capitalism went out with integration.  Have you heard of redlining?  That practice is still going on to this day.

    As for Detroit, blame that on the unions and the current black politicians in office to this day.  GM received sixty eight (68) billion in TARP funding and none of it went to the City of Detroit.  Where is your voice on this subject? Hmmmmm?  Car 54 WHERE ARE YOU? Hmmmm?  More crickets?

    As for the Nation of Islam, they did have businesses when Elijah Muhammad was in power.  After he died, all of the Nation’s businesses died.  Black people are not putting any $$$$$$$$ into black businesses today and whose fault is that?  Not mine. Yours.

    Have you contacted anyone from the Nation of Islam and asked where are the businesses in your area?   Unlike yourself, I make it my business to find out where the Nation of Islam have businesses in every city I travel to.  It is called getting up off one’s a$$ to find out what one need to know.

    As for Obama, Obama did inherit a bad economy, however, Obama admitted that he was a Republican and that Reagan was the best president that this country ever had.  Funny, that a Black Republican ran for president on a Democratic ticket.  Obama’s trickle up economics has not done anything for black folks.  

    Obama can be a dictator, what the hell are all of those Executive Orders for?  Research the Executive Orders from all of the Presidents, not just Obama.

  • AllenShaw says:

    queenofmeanest AllenShaw Yvette Carnell legalhood 
    TARP was a relief for Banks and not for cities.
    If you refer to your remarks you will see how many times you yourself blame Blacks for the problems.

    I will not respond any more I respect you and you families contribution to the Black movement and I know that I have failed to meet any of your requirements; yet all of can’t be hero’s

  • queenofmeanest says:

    AllenShaw queenofmeanest Yvette Carnell legalhood 
    Wrong again. TARP was also a relief for foreign cities.  Why was the TARP funds given to several European governments.  Greece and Spain come to mind.

    No, not all black men can be hero if they choose not to do so.

  • EdmondC says:

    Devon The Truth Teller While being in a two parent home is the ideal situation it is by no means the Answer to all of the problems in the so-called African American community. When father and mother decided to divorce when I was 9. 50% of marriages end in divorce. It is a weak excuse used by weak minded people to gloss over their shortcomings. My parents would not allow me to use their divorce as a reason for not getting and education. Crappy schools is not a reason not to learn in your home. Where a person lives in no means an excuse either. This is not India; there’s no caste system here. If a person believes that they can make something of themselves, then the only thing that can stop them is them. Their are women of all races who are not fit parents. The title of bad parent, is not exclusively an African American thing. To say it is will be a disservice to the parents who got it done. My wife and I are divorced and I have been rearing my son since he was 3 days old. Sure it would be great to have two parents in our household but it is not a game changer if I don’t marry again. I have never considered myself in the group sense. I have no clue what others of my race think, believe, or aspire to. My only concern is making sure that I do what is needed to get my two children through college. For you to claim exclusive knowledge into the ills of “black people” is disingenuous.  Everything that you mentioned can be applied to any poor person and the results will be the same. An African American criminal is a criminal the same as a criminal from any other race. If I commit any of the crimes that you mentioned, the result of getting caught is jail. I would expect nothing less. Again I would take offense to the “their own people ” part of your comment about crime. A person should not do any of those things to any people. However, since we are talking about African American criminals, I will accept to your comments. Why would you assume that African Americans do not read books? Did you hear that on some talk radio? One of the biggest complaints against our current Presidents is that he has read too many books or that he’s to intellectual. That is not an exclusive complaint about the educated. Every race of poor uneducated people use that as a way of calling out intellectuals. The commonsense word is used a lot. African Americans are not the only people to say “he’s smart but he doesn’t have common sense.” For you to bring that into this debate is to pretend that this is not an exclusive trait of the less educated.  Because I worked hard and saved my pennies I could afford to live in a descent home. I don’t begrudge the person who didn’t. When I wanted to purchase my home, I did not consult my friend who is renting an apartment; I talked to the guy who had already purchased his home.  If I want to buy a car I will not be asking the guy with a bus pass. The only difference between a poor African American and a poor person from another race is we can get sickle cell. Stop talking about race and start talking about economics.

  • EdmondC says:

    Mother Eve The fact that you think African Americans need to be lead is sad. I have not and shall not ever need a leader. I have elected officials and when they do something that I feel is against my interest I vote them out of office.

  • ElvordFloydGuidry says:

    AllenShaw very well stated Allen Shaw. The key is progress, and sometimes one may have to do something
    short term to make the necessary progress. That’s life. You are so correct that Booker T. Washington, a man I admired, lived during a time before us and we cannot perceive his obstacles. Like you stated, lets look at what worked and use it for our foundation to launch toward the future instead of tearing down our ancestors. I assume during that time everyone had good intentions, and used what they thought was the correct method to make progress. At the end of the day, are we better off this year compared to last year? Are we making progress annually?
    Do we have long term strategies for our people, and do we have a gauge to measure our progress? We have to proceed with systemic actions, and stick to it with necessary modifications, to move forward. Taking into consideration that racism will be here almost forever, its synonomus with economic, its use to make money, but despite it we have to find ways to move forward. It is now time for action, because time has almost run out.

  • firedup rtg says:

    Stickhoss Of course the first African American president would be someone with traits like the current President. This is not a surprise and nothing to complain about. The door has been opened, and subsequent African American presidents will be closer and closer to the type that would like to see.

    I just wonder what specifically you would have liked this president to act on on behalf of Blacks. I mean, beyond healthcare, revising college loan interest, regulating credit card fees, passing hate crime bill, signing off on the stimulus which helped stocks increase and company confidence to grow which led to lower unemployment (instead of being twice 10% in 2008, it’s a lower multiple of the country’s current unemployment rate of 5.3%). Forgot that he also gave the green light for Navy seals to go get the mastermind of a massacre that not only ended the lives of hundreds of Black New Yorkers but also destroyed businesses that employed Blacks and damaged schools that Black children attended in downtown Manhattan.

    He only has another 18 months, and a list of what he’s failed to act on on behalf of Blacks would be welcome.

  • hernanday1 says:

    MLK was under constant white and fbi sureillance who killed him, he had to be very careful what he said and often had to tell white people things he didn’t even believe.  It is called propaganda.  whites do it to blacks all the time  They never say we are passing these voter ID laws because we hate n-words.  They say it is about securing america and stopping fraud, a blatant lie.  They never say we want state rights again so we can discriminate against black folks and enslave them again like in the old day and jim crow day.  They say the constitution, the states created the federal government, there is less a chance of state tyranny than federal tyranny (a blatant lie).  MLK couldn’t say what he really wanted, you folks got to learn you can’t show your game plan to the enemy.  King was no dummy he did not want integrated schools.

  • ElvordFloydGuidry says:

    hernanday1 I agree with you hernanday1. However I want to elaborate more on Yvette Carnell. If anyone should like a person who has been spoon fed her knowledge its Yvette Carnell. No where I have learned that B. T. Washington told Blacks to submit to white supremacy. He stated that the route to controlling racism is to be self supportive. This can be shown when the students of Tuskegee made their bricks to build the original buildings. He was an advocate of use of the hands while improving the intellectual. He also believed in hard work and being responsible for owns welfare. Now he is dead and cannot defend himself, Yvette Carnell has negative comments about him. If we want to progress we have to extract the beneficial past, and use it to shape our future. Like all human, B. T. W. was not perfect, but is intentions were toward perfection. So lets make a hero of this guy so our future generation can have positive factors to retrieve for their future.
    Yvette Carnell has nothing but negatives things to state about our past leaders who today would run circles around her. She is more dangerous than racist whites. I hope we take her comments with objective analysis while checking out her story because she loves to run her mouth.

  • ElvordFloydGuidry hernanday1 Interesting, the idea that I’m just being negative about Booker T., considering I quoted him directly in another post. Can you defend Washington’s assertion that blacks were savages before they came in contact with whites?

  • LisaThompson3 says:

    Yvette Carnell legalhood DarlaEdwards I know this post is 2 years old, but when put into proper context, I think you’d agree that B.T.W. was correct. When Black folks come into contact with Whites, they take on their thinking patterns and behaviors to gain acceptance, many of these are abnormal patterns of behavior and thought processes. I think there is too much reductionism, not enough comprehension and too much judgment. At the end of the day, we have flaws, but the overall importance of their message (particularly in regards to B.T.W.) was self-sufficiency. Dubois craved White acceptance and primarily advocated for “education”, Booker T was more along the lines of building for self while working in tandem with intellectual advancement. It wasn’t one or the other.

  • AllenShaw says:

    Yvette Carnell ElvordFloydGuidry hernanday1 
    Yvette that is a non wise comment. Your misuse of the word savage as B.T.W used it is folly.
    Yes, that was the term that was used to describe Africans in 1400 and it had none of the negative implications that you place on the word today. After all probably have of Europeans and the world were described the same way at that time.

    I say to you do some good today for the Black race instead of complaining about what others have not done.
    After all you are the one who has been given the opportunity to advance your education in a non prejudiced environment and have the best opportunities that any working person has ever had. 
    Why did you select such a limited subject to study and participate in when you could have become a person of great influence?

    At the rate you are going your are going to be known a just another negative voice with no redeeming contribution!

  • AllenShaw says:

    Ddot365 
    “The weaker ones were thrown over board”. When you consider the value of each person on board the slave ship you will come to realize that no viable person was thrown overboard.

    In many instances more crew members died during the voyage then slaves.

    Money is power!

  • rbanks says:

    The works referenced on this site seem to he highly critical of the black middle class. As someone who is a member of the black middle class through sheer work and effort only, where is the sense of personal accountability for folks to change their stature in life. I acknowledge some very real variables to success, but hostile attitudes towards those that have preserved leaves me bothered.
    People no matter their social standing must have the desire to change.

  • GeorgiaJohnson says:

    rbanks Are you saying that most Black People have no desire to change? Maybe some don’t But this is the kind of thinking Majority population. One thing we need to do Stop comparing Black People to others. We are a Group in American like no others There is A Different. I remember when so call Middle class lived Amonge their own people they was the one that most Black People try to be LIKE. But I DIGRESS, Getting back to the statement,This system wasn’t biuld to Allow many of our people to Succeed IT call RACISM, Last Hires, First Fired Is Not A Joke. This last Election show how RACIST most majority population is.I’ve lived to see our Grandchildren whom we fought to get Civil Right not just VOTING Right, Have to fight AGAIN, This is why i ask the question, If you remember Durning Slavery the Slaves that work in the SO CALL BIG HOUSE were call UPITY BY THE FIELDS (NWORD) so we need to stop letting the Majority and some of US Defind us as a people. If you made it into the so call MIDDLE CLASS Good for you. Some did the same thing you did, But didn’t make it I’M not making excuses for the ones not trying I See young people in my community TRYING, Getting excuse after excuses from People who stand in the GAP to make sure they don’t get job or that Loan. They are not givined UP.. The NEWS Not going to tell us that I’m a community ACTIVE Soon to RETIRED.What we need is more people that so call made it REACH BACK, Not just sit BACK. Black Bourgeoisie,You ower this Generation, As I ower my Children and Grand’Generation,We got to be about help each others.

  • Lora T says:

    Interesting perspective without entirely sound facts. Any public figure who emerges as a leader will always face some sort of scrutiny. If Dr. King reflected the views of the Black Bourgeoisie why did his message resonate freedom and equality for all people? Why would he have risked his life on many occasions including the lives of his family? To propose that Dr. King’s views were not supportive of the poor black communities in America is unfounded and irresponsible. If he didn’t wear silk suits should he have worn torn rags when he marched and spoke before thousands?
    The portion of the article that implies that “black people would marvel at what Dr. King could do that they were not able to do” might have reflected the views of some poor and disenfranchised blacks but certainly not the majority.

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