Yvette Carnell: It’s Time For Bill Cosby to Stop Giving Black Folk Condescending Advice

Yvette Carnell: It’s Time For Bill Cosby to Stop Giving Black Folk Condescending Advice
June 10 09:03 2013 Print This Article

bill cosby

Years after America’s favorite dad made news for calling out black youth, Bill Cosby is still making his opinion on ideal black American virtue known. In a New York Post column, Cosby discussed everything from Mayor Bloomberg’s soda ban to parenting, but in the end, he said much of what’s wrong with America comes down to greed and apathy.

[sociallocker]As it relates to smoking and free choice advocates, Cosby makes the observation that many people who believe they are making the choice to smoke are really just addicts, saying of smokers who are sick, “They have a metal bottle and two things going up in their nose and they have a pack of cigarettes in their pocket or pocketbooks.”

Recalling a speech by Toni Morrison, Cosby shared his belief that both greed and apathy are at the core of America’s devolution:

Toni Morrison spoke at Vanderbilt University graduation last month and she was saying that money was the reason for so many deaths, so many wars and people eating the wrong foods. And it’s true, man. But when you listen to the people who are selling “feel good,” it’s greed. They couldn’t care less about us — and because we have a feeling of apathy, we don’t care either.

Then Cosby goes down a similar road he took awhile back, calling parents to account for not taking an interest in the lives of their children:

Interview some school teachers. How many parents, on parent-teacher day, actually show up? Not to Dunbar or some school where people are saying they want their child to become an engineer or philosopher or whatever else that requires one to do some homework. Go to a school where people are not doing well. How many parents show up?

He even went so far as to describe an encounter he had with a man who enjoyed living in the ‘projects.’ “Sir, there is something wrong with you wanting to stay here forever because it means as long as you’re excepting these two checks, you’re apathetic, “ scolds Cosby.

This is an old record that many black liberals, myself included, are tired of hearing, mostly because Cosby’s assessment heaps all of the blame on parents and none of the blame on government, which is partially responsible for the creation of ghettos where many of these children live. As Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote in his blog post entitled The Ghetto is Public Policy, in Chicago, black people were pariahs whom no one wanted to live around and so the housing authority turned that prejudice into government endorsed racism.

Similar stories are also noted in the book When Affirmative Action Was White, but as always, Cosby sidesteps those issues and focuses on personal responsibility, as if that’s all that matters:

There is this situation where people tend to think that we are all victims. Victim meaning somebody else is doing this to us. That’s not true. And I said this 100 times and they keep throwing back, “victim.” What they don’t understand is that I haven’t forgotten anything.

Cosby may not have forgotten anything, but he hasn’t learned anything in a long while either.  Until he’s taken a few refresher courses on how government shapes communities, it my be fitting for him to avoid wide ranging interviews with sweeping admonishments. If he can’t speak to the disparities created by government with the same scorn that he directs at the ghetto mama in the hood, then he’s not being fair, and there’s no reason we should listen.

When Bill Cosby’s ready to discuss mass incarceration or college debt, then give me a call. Until then, I don’t have the time nor energy for his unfounded contempt or old man rants. [/sociallocker]

 

 

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1423 comments
RoxanaAMacdougall
RoxanaAMacdougall

until I looked at the check four $7211 , I accept that...my... cousin woz truley taking home money part time on their laptop. . there neighbour has done this less than nine months and at present repaid the dept on there condo and bought a great new Mercedes . check



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Mr Steven Even
Mr Steven Even

I'll bet he drug and raped you too, or maybe he didn't rape, but had you on his payroll.

Mr Steven Even
Mr Steven Even

For someone to totally agree with you they would have to be sick as you are.

TinaSue
TinaSue

Cosby is "done." No more raping for him.

I listened to another Black woman who says she and Malcolm X's wife were at Cosby's Condo while Bill offered the woman coffee to drink.   The woman said she didn't drink coffee, but Mrs.. Shabazz said to give it to her, because she does drink coffee.  The woman says she smelled strong alcohol from the coffee and suggested she go get another coffee for Mrs. Shabazz instead.

Then there's Sammy Davis, Jr's  ex-girlfriend who claims he raped her after asking her to stop by his house and bring him some ribs before they were to attend a party together on someone's Yatcht.   She says she had known Cosby for 8 years, and was flabbergasted that he raped her upon entering his house with the ribs.

 It seems that Bill has very serious psychological problems.  He's sick!

Aqiyl Aniys
Aqiyl Aniys

I don't think his advise is condescending. I think he is on point and says what he says not to put anyone down, but to push us to do better. 

personj1947
personj1947

Personally I believe there is some truth to the charges but we are talking about African Americans. Look at the topic of this post and you will see MS Yarnell and African Americans delivered Bill Cosby for speech and not rape. A race of people who sees race in every confrontation between blacks and whites; and who saw no evidence that OJ murdered two people now believes whites women? Given the historical reference of white women to lynching and the silence of Black America in the mist of riots and protest, it is easy to see that Cosby broke the Black Code of Silence and was delivered reminiscent of Judas and Peter. All Cosby has to do is pull out that Race Card and the media, White Liberals and their Black puppets will back pedal like a salmon swimming upstream. Remember the “High Tech Lynching?”

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@RoxanaAMacdougall 

ANOTHER LIE.  FIRST IT WAS YOUR WELFARE STEALING MOTHER. THEN IT WAS YOUR SISTER AND NOW IT IS YOUR CUZ AND NEIGHBOR.

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@TinaSue 

Please answer this question for me.  One woman who is supposedly suing Cosby provided the wrong date of her attack.  His M.O. is the same, the stories are similar, how many more women could be wrong about the dates of the attack?

If Cosby attacked all of these white women, why didn't the police take the women that reported the rapes seriously?

Cosby is a sex addict and his behavior have proven this for many a year, but with this information going around for years, why are women still meeting him in private?

Too many questions, very little answers.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@TinaSue  I absolutely agree. That's why he was talking that garbage about "lower class" Blacks. It was to cover-up (take attention away from) his own sick behavior.

And that's why the media covered-up his sick behavior that they've known about for years. It was in exchange for the ignorance he was rambling about his own people --the Black poor-- those who are most harmed and destroyed by the racist socioeconomic policies the media's role is to defend. He said nothing about the policies, he only denigrated the victims of the policies.

The claims of racism by his Black supporters as being the motive for the current exposure of Cosby's "sickness" is itself a sickness. It overlooks the role Cosby himself has played in pushing the racist agenda of "blame the victim." Therefore, supporting racism.

The good thing to remember is that all Black elites do not engage in Cosby-type behavior; they do not publicly denigrate the Black poor, nor go around drugging and raping. In other words, they are not all psychopaths like Cosby.

Nor can his behavior be attributed to his "parenting," how he was raised. I'm sure his parents did not teach him to do what he is doing -- putting down his own people (as a group) without a related policy analysis, and drugging and raping.

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@TinaSue 

Tina Sue, please learn to think logically.  Why are all of these women coming forth now?  A majority of these women are poor, hassled and determined to get a free buck.

Unless there is concrete proof that he did these things, all it boils down to is speculation.  Nothing less. Nothing more.

As for Mrs. Shabazz, since she was involved in the Muslim movement, it would be very stupid of Bill trying to rape her for the simple fact, those Muslims and I am not talking about the Nation of Islam would bust a cap in his head.

Plain and simple.

mssweetella
mssweetella

@TinaSue Now these lying thots are inserting a deceased woman of Color into their madness & they continue to draw you gullible individuals into their fanasy world of make believe!!!!

Johnw11
Johnw11

@Aqiyl Aniys  "Do better" about what? Not drugging and raping people? 99% + of the people he bad-mouthed and lied on don't do that anyway. So maybe he should have been taking his own advice.

The fact that he is a hypocrite, makes his own advice in content a lie to his own values. Therefore, he could not help but lie about others to take focus off his own inclinations.

I don't know anyone who benefitted from his lies but the racists who used his lies to support their own manipulations. Given this, a lot of people have been hurt by his lies. 

I have already stated in detail my position on Cosby. I have no further time to waste on the matter. 

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@personj1947 

Here's the problem.  The majority of the women making these accusations are white.  If these accusations were true, Cosby's a$$ would have been gone a long time ago.

CarolParks
CarolParks

@personj1947,

I read an article the other day in the New York Daily Times, where Frank Scotti, a White man who worked for NBC back in the 60's, & 70's, gave an interview about what went on with Bill Cosby.

According to him, he & Bill were good friends, & there were pictures of the two together over the years in the article. Anyway, he stated that Bill was like many big stars who slept around. He said he was the go between, & many times his name was used. He would bring back women who wanted to have a career, & they were paid well in advance. He said the women knew exactly what this was about, & accepted thousands of dollars in return.

One woman who continually saw Crosby over the years, put her child in a very expensive private school, that Cosby paid for. He said these women were not raped, & were paid well. He also said this was more common then you would think, but declined to mention other big names who did the same thing.

My thoughts are that no doubt , Mr. Cosby had many affairs, & many encounters that were sexual. I still do not believe it was rape. Rape is a very brutal crime. But, being paid a lot of money, & these women taking that money, & going to his room, or wherever, still says to me they were paid " whores". I mean what else can you call it?

That many women, never saying a word about being raped, just is too hard for me to believe. Lisa Bonnet, of the Cosby Show also said she did not believe the accusations of rape.

For some reason, all these women are now all coming out together after 40, & some 50 years later? I smell a RAT, & it isn't Bill Cosby. Just common sense says this makes no sense. Plus, women being paid in Hollywood for sex, is not exactly a rarity. And as far as his wife goes, I believe she just decided to look the other way. She has stood by him, thru all of this.

Just my opinion. And yes, he did have a reputation back then as a " Ladies Man".

Johnw11
Johnw11

@personj1947  Sorry. Your excuse doesn't fly. These allegations about Cosby have been around for years but were covered up by the media; probably in exchange for the ignorant rants he made against the Black poor.

This is not about OJ. Oh, and by the way --THE GLOVES DIDN'T FIT..

This is about a hypocrite who allowed his celebrity to be used against his own people. Who went on national TV and said that a poor Black person should be killed if he "stole a pound cake." This coming from a man worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

This is not about O.J. He had his day in court. Cosby refused his own day in court and instead bought his way out of it, "settled."

Cosby has shown no empathy for Blacks, especially the Black poor, it is no wonder little is being shown him.

COSBY DID NOT BREAK A 'BLACK CODE OF SILENCE."

SILENCE ABOUT WHAT?

What Cosby broke was not silence, but the movement of poor people for justice. "No need to put money in their schools," he said. "It's the parents."

"Children don't always follow parental guidance," one Black social scientist told him on national TV.

"You don't know what you are talking about," Cosby told the expert.

Now the question is: did Cosby's parents raise him to become a "mollie dropping" rapist?

Of course not!  

COSBY ACTED AS AN IGNORANT FOOL, WHO TOLD BALD-FACED LIES ON BLACKS. The lies he told were not contained in any CODE, other than the code of racism. The code of blaming its victims for the outcomes of its racist "economic sanctions" policies. And he didn't break that code either -- he advanced it.

Cosby made his bed. Now he must sleep in it.

I, for one, am not sorry for him in the least.

In fact, I don't know any Blacks who feel sorry him. And that includes middle and upper middle class Blacks as well.

Their position, which I hear daily, is "if the women are lying, why not sue them in court, instead hiding like a rat after all that disgraceful talking he's been doing about his own people?"



Mr Steven Even
Mr Steven Even

@Johnw11 @TinaSue  You are yhe sickest person on the internet hands down.  You need to be put away pronto. 

a straight up lunatic.

TinaSue
TinaSue

@Johnw11 @TinaSue 

I like your understanding of poor Blacks. My Dad was the "Eric Garner" type who made it possible for me to be an upper elite Black. I never forget from whence I came.

It's getting embarrassing to see silly Black people cry racism and try to defend Cosby.  There are probably even more "Black" rape victims from his teen years within our community.  He should not be allowed to be the face of respectable Black men.   

Johnw11
Johnw11

@mssweetella @TinaSue  May I ask how do you "know" for a fact that they are lying?

Were you there? If so, what did you see Cosby do that they are lying about?

Just an inquiring mind that's trying to learn from you, because you were there in all 20 +  cases (at last count) and saw the whole thing.

One more question: has Cosby contacted you yet to testify in his behalf? Since you were there and all?

Moreover, has tried to help the Back poor of Detroit get their water turned back on? Has President Obama tried to help with that crisis?

Aqiyl Aniys
Aqiyl Aniys

@Johnw11 If you didn't have any further time to waste on the matter, why did you take the time to reply. The same thing Cosby said, are the same things many people black say. I come from the life of which Cosby spoke against and I was able to escape it. I escaped it not by continuing to play the victim this establishment wants us to be, but by holding onto God by any means necessary. Whether Cosby is a hypocrite is irrelevant to me. I have learned in my like that I can learn from everyone.

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@CarolParks 

Someone need to break it down to Gloria Allred.  Her attempt at extortion is very dangerous.

personj1947
personj1947

@CarolParks If anyone truly want to understand what is going on with these charges against Bill Cosby, look at everything that don’t make sense. Black people are silent given the history of white women accusing black men of raping them and they being lynched. Hell black people are still complaining about slavery. There’s no evidence against Cosby and they canceled his shows. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that Al Sharpton was in the mob but he has a tv show, a radio show, a civil rights organization, owes 4 million in back taxes and councils the President. Black people kill 97% of black people and more than half the people in the US. Yet they are allowed to claim they are the victims. The main thing this does is drive a wedge between poor and working class blacks whites; the very people who should be working together and that makes sense. NOW who and what are they protesting? Consider this. They are protesting racism and demanding justice from blue collar workers. Here is discrimination and no one is protesting it. Over 90,000 people filed discrimination complaints against employers (the rich). Throw in the 12% unemployment rate of black adults and the 40% unemployment of young blacks. Two things most of the people are knowingly hiding: Wagging the Dog and the Black Code of Silence.

personj1947
personj1947

@CarolParks   If it don't make sense, there is something bigger going on. If anyone truly want to understand what is going on with these charges against Bill Cosby, look at everything that don’t make sense. Black people are silent given the history of white women accusing black men of raping them and they being lynched. Hell black people are still complaining about slavery. There’s no evidence against Cosby and they canceled his shows. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that Al Sharpton was in the mob but he has a tv show, a radio show, a civil rights organization, owes 4 million in back taxes and he councils the President. Black people kill 97% of black people and more than half the people in the US. Yet they are allowed to claim they are the victims. All of this is design to drive a wedge between poor and working class blacks whites; the very people who should be working together and that makes sense. NOW who and what are they protesting? Consider this. They are protesting racism and demanding justice from blue collar workers. Over 90,000 people filed discrimination complaints against employers (the rich). Whites have full employment. NOW Throw in the 12% unemployment rate of black adults and the 40% unemployment of young blacks. There are two things most of the people are knowingly hiding behind that makes it all possible: Wagging the Dog and the Black Code of Silence.

Fitzgerald Ostriker
Fitzgerald Ostriker

Goodevening Carol. You said you smell a rat? Well that "rat" may have a name.

Gloria Allred. Yes THE Gloria Allred.

She is now "representing" three "alleged" victims who have a story to tell.

Now the picture is beginning to get a little bit clearer.

The media "trial" is now going into full gear and here these women may have made their first misstep.

Bringing in Allred equates to one primary objective: MONEY.

I strongly suspected there was an end game here and beyond that, these women are just not convincing.

I will continue to reserve judgement not out of any professed allegiance for Mr. Cosby but rather for fair play.

I do believe in cold hard facts and as of yet NONE of these women have provided nothing other than their "story" to any media outlet that is willing to swim in the sensationalism gutter. Cnn in particular.

Yes those who have a personal gripe with Cosby are no doubt rejoicing over this spectacle.

I am not remotely suprised considering the mindset of those who see any critique of the black community as an offense worthy of condemnation and vilification.

They see what they WANT to see.

However Cosby is just a small matter when looking at the total picture.

Something far worse is coming into play in our society that many people due to extreme emotion either for or against this man, is overlooking.

That is the fact that the media has an almost unbreakable chokehold if you will on the way a public entity can be viewed.

All it takes is an "allegation" to either tarnish a public figures reputation or worse

render him obsolete.

It is hard to prove a negative and unfortunately many opportunists know this and utilize this method to full affect regardless of who is harmed by this.

The media is complicit in this because it works according to the objective of its masters.

A very dangerous precedent is being set here and Cosby certainly will not be the last.

CarolParks
CarolParks

@personj1947,

One more thing, the people who do not like Mr. Cosby because of his political, & personal views, of course have jumped on the band wagon, " and have joined the Media Lynching". Adding innuendo, rumors, & some down right lies , in their joy to bring him down.

And of course it is a well known FACT, that Mr. Cosby gave MILLIONS to Black schools.

Watchful
Watchful

@Johnw11 


There seems to be a good number of blk ppl that actually feel sorry for him, one being my own sister. But, like u, I'm not among them.



queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@Mr Steven Even @Johnw11 @TinaSue 

Mr. Even, what you fail to realize is the discussion of Cosby's hypocrisy.  Cosby talks down to blacks about having children out of wedlock, however, approximately 20 years ago, it came out that he may have fathered a daughter out of wedlock by his mistress.

His excuse was just that a excuse for his extra-marital behavior.  His "daughter" went to jail for 26 months for extortion and yet he has not gone to jail for his sexual abuse.

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@TinaSue 


My parents made it possible for me and my brothers to living a upper class life.  My father started his landscaping business and well as worked in a meat packing plant.  My mother started her bookkeeping business, worked as a housekeeper and a fashion model for a couple of high end department stores.  She was black, but could pass for white if she wanted to.  Some of her former white neighbors thought she was white.  Both parents were medium to dark skinned black.

All of my brothers enlisted in the military.  They never forgot to send money back for our parents to spend as they pleased.

All of us kids was assigned to every bill that my parents created so that they would not have to pay anything out of "THEIR" pocket.

I paid the mortgag and taxes. One brother paid the car notes, , another brother paid the utilities, another bought food, another provided money for travel and entertainment, another paid for the housekeeper to clean up, etc.

Our parents did not have to do without.  When my mother was diagnosed with a rare form of blood cancer, someone sent a social worker.

The social worker said, that my mother would be better off in a nursing home so that the state could take her home, car and bank account.

That was the wrong thing for her to say to my mother and me.  I called all of my brothers that had retired from the military or home on leave and I told them what the social worker said.

They were pissed off and still to this day.  I let this woman talk and talk until they showed up.

We gave her a choice.  Leave and never bother our mother again or would she prefer the black folks version of WACO and she is the Branch Davidian.

She left and she never bothered us again.  We all took care of "OUR" mother 24/7 until she passed.  We still paid her bills and gave her spending money for whatever she wanted.


We still have the house and her car.


Johnw11
Johnw11

@TinaSue Thanks. I have spent over 15 years (since grad school) studying as a professional behavioral / social scientist the socioeconomic effects of poverty on affected urban and rural African American populations.

I am very familiar with stories like your dad's. Men who do what they can to support their families, in response to socioeconomic sanctions imposed as long standing policy on African Americans. I am always amazed at the resilience of African Americans, especially the Black poor.

For example, beginning in the late 1960s, jobs where these men  worked began disappearing. The "offshoring" of jobs continued and with NAFTA of the 1990s the effects became even worse, affecting those not previously impacted.

Many of these men become imprisoned by the "mass incarceration" system. After which, they are barred for life from ever working even when a job might exist. Others, like Eric Garner, are "murdered" outright by lynchers. Still others have been "shaped" by their impoverished environmental circumstances  to do the racists' work for them by engaging in fratricidal behavior. 

Still others hold on the best they can.

My own upbringing was somewhere between poor and not so poor. My siblings and I were taught never to look down on those not as fortunate as we were.

The only thing we were taught to despise was ignorance (not the person but the ignorance itself). To this very day, I despise nothing more than ignorance. And when people are proud to be ignorant, I find it most sad.

Cosby -- who I do not believe is ignorant, but a sociopathic liar -- by denigrating the Black poor, was not only lying, but consciously supporting the policies and narratives of the racists. Hence, the lack of contextual analysis his hateful rants had.

Evidence that he knows better was presented in a video on this site wherein years ago he talked about how racism had impacted Blacks negatively.

Since that proves that he knows better, it is reasonable to conclude that he knows his anti Black poor rants were lies, i.e., he is a sociopath. It is that very personality type (sociopath, AKA psychopath) that has been associated with rape. In additional to being expert liars, sociopaths are heartless, they care only about themselves and their own wants and pleasures. For example, he has appealed to the "Black media" to give him a "neutral" hearing. Where was that concern for "neutrality" when he was bashing poor Blacks for the entertainment of racists? Cosby feels neither guilt nor shame for his behavior (he is incapable of it), either about drugging and raping, nor the lies he told on the Black poor. 

Like all sociopaths, his only regret is getting caught.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@Aqiyl Aniys @Johnw11  I'll engage you for little while. Although I've said all I have to say about Cosby and his sociopathic drugging and raping behavior, you raise issues I'd like to explore further.

So you say Cosby's behavior of blaming the Black poor for the results of policy implemented poverty "saved" you and made you not be a "victim like white people" want you to be.

I'm interested to know what EACTLY did Cosby say to you that you had never heard before in your life that motivated you to turned your life around in such a profound way that you have overcome racism / white supremacy and are no longer subjected to the racism that all other Blacks (regardless of "personal success") are subjected to. 

Please, tell me more.

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@Fitzgerald Ostriker 

Remember Gloria was involved in that racial incident between a couple blacks and Michael Richards referring to blacks as n*gg*rs.

The young men had every right to sue, but Gloria intercepted and negotiated a settlement of apology.

She is about as effective as Alan Dershowitz.

queenofmeanest
queenofmeanest

@Watchful @Johnw11 

One more thing to add.  Cosby has been known to be a  womanizer.  Didn't he think that his past would catch up to him?

Especially in ways he never thought of?

I am not feeling sorry for him myself.  When there is smoke there is fire.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@Watchful  I know there are some Blacks supporting him. You know how many Blacks are when it comes to worshipping celebrities.

What I meant was no one I know supports him. Or, what probably would have been a more accurate statement on my part is no one I've talked to about his behavior supports him. And I've talked to a lot of people of all socioeconomic classes.

Certainly no one in my immediate family supports him because of his sociopathic lies about those he has referred to as the "lower classes" and "ghetto trash."

We, in my family, were not raised to look down on those less fortunate than ourselves.

TinaSue
TinaSue

@Johnw11 @TinaSue 

That's a good analysis of the struggles of my father and brothers who loved and provided for their families.  I'm so proud of them.


I support those Black women who claim Cosby drugged and raped them.  Cosby was an "Equal Opportunity" rapist.  But, I stay silent on his White victims.  White women never supported us Black women against the biggest rapist in American history (The White Man raping Black women through Slavery, Jim Crow, currently).  The White women are out protesting Cosby's appearances.  Yet, I have yet to see them get out and protest on behalf of the eight Black women who were raped by that Oklahoma White Cop.  I don't condone Cosby raping them, but their fight is not my fight.  Racism is always the divide between us.

Aqiyl Aniys
Aqiyl Aniys

First of all @Johnw11 stay on point and don't say I said things in my comments which I didn't. Please be diligent and respond to my comment accurately. If you don't have the ability to do this there is no further reason for this discussion. 

I never said this:
"So you say Cosby's behavior of blaming the Black poor for the results of policy implemented poverty "saved" you and made you not be a "victim like white people" want you to be."

If you are going to paraphrase my words then it should accurately portray my initial though and not cause misinformation.

Watchful
Watchful

@queenofmeanest 


Obviously he didn't, queen. I'm not feelin' sorry for him either. That said, I can't help but question that all these women have suddenly come outta the woodwork all at once with these accusations. Raises suspicions as to what their true motives may be, at least in my mind. Can't help but suspect that this whole controversy may very well have been pre-orchestrated. I'm gonna just see what, if anything, develops from here on out before I make any judgments.  

Michael H Lewis
Michael H Lewis

You ever wonder what would happen if we looked @ why Bill doesn't understand the struggle in the same way as someone who hasn't been as successful? Independent of whether he is guilty or innocent his television show played a huge role in race relations by humanizing black people to the masses of Americans with little interactions and only stereotypical impressions before watching it. He donated $20 million to Spelman college and has done significant good works related to learn disabilities and equality in educational opportunities for women. I give respect to any man based on his collective actions and Cosby has mine even if his world view has become too solliptical to recognize the structural issues that have impacted other black people.

Bill may have stepped out on his wife on a number of occasions but that is not what most black people are focusing on in the internet court of public opinion. I also think that he's not unique in that regard to many men we hold in high regard for there contributions to civil and human rights. I don't see his message being that different from the black bourgeois like WEB Dubois description of the black masses after slavery only now the cognitive dissonance is related to 25% of us who have not been as fortunate instead of nearly 100%. Any person who sees it as evidence of racial inferiority or lack of morality needs to turn their lens on society who created the by products of slavery.

Watchful
Watchful

@Johnw11 


Well, those r separate issues. I didn't like the way he chastised the underprivileged among our ppl without also pointing out the huge role that institutional racism has played in them behaving the way that many of them have. 


That said, the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned as to these recent drugging and sexual assault allegations. I don't no if he's guilty or not, but the fact that all these women have almost simultaneously come forward with these accusations does raise certain questions in my mind that there may be alot more to this than meets the eye. I'm willing to wait and see what develops. 


I can definitely understand those that may feel that this whole thing may be a racially-motivated witch hunt against a very high profile blk male celebrity, certainly wouldn't be the first time. I just hope the allegations r not true, but the fact that he took so long to speak out against them does raise some suspicions in my mind at least.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@TinaSue @Johnw11  Again, I agree with your analysis.

I noticed that same crew was quick to protest Mike Tyson (whose conviction was a complete injustice). They protested Michael Vick (who served more time for dog-fighting than Zimmerman and the other racist lynchers will ever serve for murder). On and on.

But these same women never protest white guys when they are accused of crimes including rape. Where was their protest of NFL quarterback Ben Roethlisberger when he was accused of rape by two women? Indeed, where was the around-the-clock idiot box (TV) coverage?

Robert Blake (the actor) was acquitted in his wife-murder trial, despite strong evidence that he was guilty. No protest. O.J. was acquitted too, but despite his acquittal, he was hounded until later framed and sits in jail now. Not for the frame-up, but as pay back by psychopaths who declare before the heavens that he "did it" even though the gloves reportedly used in commission of the crime didn't fit his hands.

So your point is well taken.

My criticism of Cosby, on the other hand, has nothing to do with racist white women protesters. My criticism of him is based on his own hypocrisy in publicly bad-mouthing the Black poor as being "immoral," while at the same time he was serially committing one of the most despicable acts of  "immorality" imaginable -- drugging and raping women.

He said repeatedly, sometimes even to all-white audiences, that "the ghetto trash" is an "embarrassment" to Blacks. His motto was those "lower classes," this and that. He blamed "lower class parents" for the policy manifestations of racism. He told lies on the Black poor. He even shamelessly made embellished claims about "35 year-old grandmothers."

Yet he has turned out to be one of the greatest embarrassments to Blacks in history.

I care nothing about the racists who now denounce him. They weren't protesting when he was lying on the Black poor. I support neither them, nor him.

In closing, I know that sometimes being critical of Blacks who are being criticized by racists can be a difficult thing to do.

The way I handle such sensitivity is by focusing on what's best for Blacks, regardless what the racists do or say.

President Obama is a good example. He is often criticized by racists (although all whites who criticize him are not racist in their criticism, some have legitimate policy disagreements-- I know the difference between the two). But I care nothing about the racists' agenda. My concern is how HIS agenda, via his policies, are destroying Blacks universally.

I'm thinking that Blacks should stop functioning as "stimulus-response" subjects to the whims of racists, embracing sell-outs just because some whites criticize them, and focus on our own best interest as a collective.

I am pleased to know that you are COMPLETE enough to do that.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@Aqiyl Aniys @Johnw11  OK, so you disagree with my "paraphrase"  (actually, it was an assessment) of your statement.

So, let's see how direct quotes work for you.

"I come from the life of which Cosby spoke against and I was able to escape it. I escaped it not by continuing to play the victim this establishment wants us to be, but by holding on to God by any means necessary."

Question: What "life" did you come from, and what did Cosby say specifically (that you didn't find "condescending") that helped you not "PLAY" a victim? 

Is that fair enough?

Also you stated: "whether Cosby is a hypocrite is irrelevant to me. I have learned in my life that I can learn from everyone?"

If it's true that you can "learn from everyone," why did Cosby have to come along and teach you? Why did you not learn from your family, neighbors, teachers at school, etc.? No matter what "life" you came from, there were people telling you right from wrong. Why did you only listen to Cosby, to the extent that you do not consider his "reaction formation" defensive behavior "condescending, but inspiring?

And since you referenced a strong faith in God, why was Cosby's influence over you greater than God's?

And when you say that it was / is not, my question becomes: why then are you not posting in defense of God foremost, instead of posting to defend Cosby foremost?

And when you say that you find it "irrelevant" whether or not he is a "hypocrite," my question becomes: how can one believe in God (morally grounded in right over wrong), and at the same time not care if a supposed advocate of morality is a hypocrite? Especially, when the hypocrisy involves the immoral violation of the dignity and the most precious rights of others.

In short, what EXACTLY did Cosby say to you that helped you turn your life around? My interest is not in WHO you can learn from, my interest is in WHAT did you learn from Cosby.

Please, tell me more.


Johnw11
Johnw11

@Michael H Lewis  Your comment rationalizes Cosby's conduct out of context.

1. The discussion is not about men "stepping out" on their wives, it's about Cosby's drugging and raping women.

2. Cosby's TV show did not improve race relations (as is sometimes claimed), it's purpose was to distract away from the misery of economic sanctions and mass incarceration engulfing whole Black communities during the 80s and continuing to this very day.

In that way, by serving as a distraction, rather than improved race relations, it exacerbated them, if we base "race relations" on material / substantive quality of life measures for African Americans rather than false" symbolism" that represents only a tiny fraction of Blacks when compared to the group as a whole..

3. Spelman college has recently disowned him.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@Watchful This is absolutely my last reply to anyone about Cosby. The only reason I'm responding now is because of you.

I responded to that last guy because I wanted to trap him. I thought he was going to tell that lie that he agreed with Cosby because what Cosby said could be validated by his own life of escaping "unfit" parents because no one had ever taught him anything and all the other lies that ilk tells on their own people and families in order to please racists for rewards.

That's why I asked the questions I did.

He finally admitted that Cosby had no motivational affect on him. Which I knew all along, because "condescending" talk never motivates anyone except the masochistic.

He finally admitted that he simply agreed with Cosby's denigration of those he and Cosby feel superior to. Which means he is both uniformed and has low self-esteem, if he has to denigrate others in order to feel good about himself. Sad!

As far as Cosby's guilt is concerned, I'm looking at the history. This has been in the atmosphere for a long time. It was hushed by the media because Cosby's ignorant rants were pleasing to the racists who control the media. Also, I'm looking at the personality. It takes a sociopath to tell lies on one's own people, especially the most oppressed, and least capable of defending themselves of all demographics--- the Black poor. Therefore, Cosby has the very personality type that WOULD drug and rape -- sociopathic/ psychopathic personality disorder..

Now that he is old, probably with little time left in their calculation, they've decided to throw him onto the pile with the other Blacks they denigrate as models of negativity, many of them after they've been used up.

They have no more use for him. They now have a much younger idiot in Charles Barkley. And when he becomes no longer useful, he'll get his awakening too. They know Barkley's personality and behavior. They're waiting.

And as far as racism is concerned, both Cosby and Barkley practice racism against Blacks by agreeing with the racists' narrative. Cosby is just getting a taste of his own medicine.


Aqiyl Aniys
Aqiyl Aniys

@Johnw11 It t is not necessary for me to go into what life i came from. I basically fit into the picture Cosby described of people who need to have more discipline and be more productive people. Cosby was not responsible for the changes I made in my life, my dedication to God was the reason. 

Why do you keep making up words I didn't say. I never said Cosby came along and taught me anything. I just agree with Cosby's point of view. Bahaha, I think you might be a troll, either that or you might have issues with comprehension. I never I only listened to Cosby. 

I am done with the seemingly pointless conversation.

Michael H Lewis
Michael H Lewis

@Johnw11 @Michael H Lewis


1. I don't believe any evidence has been produced to prove Cosby commited rape or any hearsay enough to warrant a criminal charge. The discussion here has been centered around Cosby's comments that are considered denigrating to underprivileged black people.  That was the point of the statement which you are commenting.


2.  I am not sure how to respond to the idea that the Cosby show was created as a way to "distract away from the misery of economic sanctions and mass incarceration engulfing whole Black communities during the 80s and continuing to this very day"


a. Cosby commisioned a study of the show's impact on society and found that among both white and black audience there was an unprecendented amount of affection for the show and that white audiences where able to identify with the family.  There also ten pages of articles that come up from a Google search about how the show improved race relations.


b.You seem to be trying to trying to redefine the term "race relations" to mean quaulity of life / material assets of black Americans.  That's a seperate issue with so many other factors involved that no cause / effect relationship could be tied to the show.  


c. The logical leaps to accept a conspiracy theory to distract from the plight of black people with a sucessful black family on tv are beyond rational analysis. The show  paved the way for many other shows that have shown a wide array of black culture.  Cosby has also done a number other shows depicting different views of black family life. 


3. Spelman eliminated the proffership he funded in his name with the justification that it doesn't carry the same prestige.  The haven't returned any of the money he donated or made any other public statements.  I'd agree they have distanced themselves from him but the cause was bad publicity not a value judgement.  






Johnw11
Johnw11

@Aqiyl Aniys I think you are the troll. You come to me talking all foxy about how you agreed with Cosby and didn't find his insults "condescending" and how you "escaped" from the "life," etc. Now you deny you said it. This despite the fact that everyone can read what you wrote.

All I asked was what had Cosby said that helped you "escape" the "life"

Knowing that I was setting you up to dismantle your lie,  you finally said what I was prompting you to say. Cosby said nothing to you that helped you change your "life." 

Because you are as uninformed as Cosby, and the others who think like you and Cosby and the right-wingers from Fox News, etc., you claimed that those Cosby referred to as "ghetto trash" and the "lower classes" are poor because they don't have "discipline."

Question for you: what about those tens of thousands of Blacks who have graduated from college but are unemployed because whites with a high school degree (or HS dropouts) are up to three times more likely to be hired than them?

Is the fact that most of them are probably on food stamps and welfare due to their lack of "discipline"?

What about the 180,000 Blacks teachers fired because of President Obama's educational policies of privatizing schools, many with masters and  some with phd degrees, who are now unemployed? Do they lack "discipline"?

The fact is, if you are lucky enough, and that's all it is--luck, to be doing OK, then count your blessings.

Don't look down on others. If you need to look down on others in order to feel good about yourself, what does that say about your self-concept? 

I used to know some people who felt like you and Cosby, but they don't anymore. They lived in a nice home and drove a nice car--just like a superstar.

But since they have lost everything and now hang out with the same kind of people they once looked down upon, they have learned the difference between "breaks" and "discipline."

Cosby did the same thing. Now look at him. Despite his money, he's more unhappy than the "lower classes" and "ghetto trash" he denigrated. Their "parents don't raise them," he said to the smiling and cheering racists.

Who raised that drugging rapist?  Well over 98% of the people he maligned would ever do the sociopathic dirt he did.

To hell with that sociopath.

And good bye to you.

Johnw11
Johnw11

@Michael H Lewis @Johnw11  Michael, you're both correct and incorrect about the evidence piece. But remember, he "settled" by paying off an accuser a few years ago.

I'm sure you will agree that it is difficult to present "evidence" absent a trial. If he did not fear evidence, why settle?

To me, that's evidence within itself. Not to mention the fact that all the women tell similar stories. They go into details of where they were, what they were wearing, what he was wearing, what he did, etc.

Even if he is innocent  of the horrible charges (which, frankly, I doubt), he must have known that by dodging that trial he was opening the door for further charges.

In terms of the "rationality" of my analysis regarding the impact of his TV show on "race relations," I surmise the difference here is in our divergent definitions of "race relations."

Some people tend to view the matter from the perspective that whites are racist against Blacks because of Blacks' own behavior, e.g., poor, welfare, criminals, etc. Therefore, a TV show that shows Blacks as high-class professionals will cause racists to see Blacks in a different light. This delusional belief is often referred to as "politics of respectability." The problem with that view is that it not only ignores the etiology of racism, but assumes that racists don't already know that there are successful Blacks. They know it, many just wish it wasn't so. And do everything within their power to prevent Blacks from being successful.

In fact, even during chattel slavery there were successful Blacks.

I, on the other hand, do not accept that conceptualization as valid. I measure race relations in material terms. And, in fact, could care less about whites' social attitudes about Blacks. My concern is the quality of life for the many, not the few. Given this, as long as Blacks suffer wealth gaps, employment gaps, incarceration gaps, and overall the most unjust treatment of any societal group, etc., to me, there would not have been an improvement in race relations. Period.

If that is irrational, then we have to redefine rationality. I'm cool with such a redefinition -- as long as it remains within the confines of the real world.

Moreover, I've already described what was going on socioeconomically regarding Blacks during the 80s under Reagan's policies when Cosby's show was popular. I see no need in repeating it. I'm not knocking the show, I'm disagreeing with the social- racial significance being assigned the "comedy" by you and others.

(Maybe it's because I prefer reading to watching TV.)

Lastly, the fact that Spelman disassociated itself from Cosby due to the drugging and rape allegations against him remains a fact. It can be "rationalized" as you are doing, but a fact it is.

Those are the noteworthy points you raised that I felt like replying to. All else you said I'll leave to randomization.

I do give you credit as I did once before for at least knowing something about the subjects you comment on. Although I often disagree due to our apparent different world views and levels of analysis.

Nevertheless, I'm sure one day we'll end up agreeing on something in total rather than partially.